What came first the Buddha or the egg?

[WokiTheCat]

Hmm. Im pondering something. In zazen does the monkey mind slow down, does seeking slow down, does conceptualizing dissipate, does attachment dissipate and all that jazz as a result or after effect of the realization of Big Mind/Buddha? Kinda like how blood pressure drops as a result of working out, its not like "you" can take credit for something your body does automatically.

Or is it because we arent feeding the monkeys so often that they calm down enough to let Mind shine through?

You often here something along the lines of "let go of your attachments, or do not be attached to thoughts, let thoughts pass through etc to realize the buddha" But what if its the other way around? What if im not too bothered by my thoughts because i am the realized Buddha? That thoughts aren't the problem, these thoughts are Buddha's thoughts, this pain is buddhas pain, this pain is made of diamonds.
So is "attachment" itself to thoughts the problem than?
Does practicing non-attachment to everything lead to realized Buddha?
Or does "attachment" dissipate as a result of realized Buddha. Like how bad health issues dissipate as a result of working out.

I dont know, i must make no sense, the only thing i know right now is that im going to go sit zazen right now and its gonna suck lol. But such is life and i gotta do what i gotta do. Goodnight.

Gassho,
Misha.

[Jishin]

IMG_0169.JPGIMG_0171.JPG

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Daitetsu]

Hi Misha,

Does the answer to this really (really) matter?
Does the timeless have a beginning or end?

Just sit and find out/forget.

Gassho,

Daitetsu

#sat2day

[Jundo]

Yes, too much chicken or egg thinking. Go sit!

My father used to say, "If vanilla ice cream was chocolate, would it be chocolate ice cream?"

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[WokiTheCat]

[ATTACH]5139[/ATTACH][ATTACH]5140[/ATTACH]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Haha, thanks.
Gassho, Misha

[WokiTheCat]

Yes, too much chicken or egg thinking. Go sit!

My father used to say, "If vanilla ice cream was chocolate, would it be chocolate ice cream?"

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

Whoa. You're pops was too rad. okay i'll go sit.
Gassho, misha.

[Jundo]

Hi Mischa,

Now that I gave you the smart ass Zenny answer "Just Sit," let me take your question a little more seriously ...

Hmm. Im pondering something. In zazen does the monkey mind slow down, does seeking slow down, does conceptualizing dissipate, does attachment dissipate and all that jazz as a result or after effect of the realization of Big Mind/Buddha? Kinda like how blood pressure drops as a result of working out, its not like "you" can take credit for something your body does automatically.

Or is it because we arent feeding the monkeys so often that they calm down enough to let Mind shine through?

Yes to all of it. A light shines through the clouds, both white clouds and black. Which came first, the clouds or the shining, the shining or the clouds? Why need there be a first or second? (A Koany response). Does your ear hear the sound of a tree falling because a tree fell, or does your ear hearing make the sound of a tree falling because the ear hears? Was the tree falling first and the ear second, or the ear first and the tree falling second? YES!

Because we aren't feeding the monkeys, a light shines through. Because there is a light, it can shine through when we don't feed the monkeys.

We sometimes speak of our "Original Face," the blank paper or canvas upon which all of life and this world is written. However, that does not mean that the paper or canvas necessarily came first (perhaps it did), but that it is the "foundation, the true home" of all that is happening now. Further, a paper or canvas without our story or picture is empty and lifeless.

One thing for sure: Without tree, without falling, and without ear there is no sound! Without you and without the world and without living there is no life!

You often here something along the lines of "let go of your attachments, or do not be attached to thoughts, let thoughts pass through etc to realize the buddha" But what if its the other way around? What if im not too bothered by my thoughts because i am the realized Buddha? That thoughts aren't the problem, these thoughts are Buddha's thoughts, this pain is buddhas pain, this pain is made of diamonds.

Yes, the anger and sadness are Buddha's anger and sadness. Unfortunately, they also tend to hide Buddha's clarity and light. It is rather like saying that the dark and stormy clouds are also the sky, and the sky is still open and clear behind the clouds, but the clouds tend to hide that fact. The sun is still shining behind the clouds, seen or unseen.

So is "attachment" itself to thoughts the problem than?
Does practicing non-attachment to everything lead to realized Buddha?

Yes, but don't be "detached." Just hold a bit lighter, go with the flow more rather than clinging to the rocks. I sometimes describe, for example, how I hold and cherish the people and beautiful things in my life and savor them, yet I do not clutch. For example, I love my house and my life in this house. If it disappeared tomorrow, I would hope to dust off (maybe shed a few natural tears) and make a new house.

Or does "attachment" dissipate as a result of realized Buddha. Like how bad health issues dissipate as a result of working out.

Again, yes and yes. There is a famous story about Zen teachers and students: The teacher pecks on the shell from the outside as the student pecks from the inside, and thus the shell breaks. Not just a matter of before or after. Nor is it a matter of "inside vs. out."

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[WokiTheCat]

We sometimes speak of our "Original Face," the blank paper or canvas upon which all of life and this world is written. However, that does not mean that the paper or canvas necessarily came first (perhaps it did), but that it is the "foundation, the true home" of all that is happening now. Further, a paper or canvas without our story or picture is empty and lifeless.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

Could this canvas/painting analogy also apply to the saying emptiness is form, form is emptiness?
Or is that a totally different thing?

[Shonin]

Interesting read. Thank you all.
Dave _/\_ Sat

[Jundo]

Could this canvas/painting analogy also apply to the saying emptiness is form, form is emptiness?
Or is that a totally different thing?

Same, one of many imperfect symbols and metaphors that Zen folks use to point at the moon.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH