Seiza posture

[Greggorious]

Hi everyone, I haven't been here in quite some time. I've been having some health issues and so have been neglecting my zen practice. I've recently developed Rheumatoid arthritis and find that I can no longer do Burmese position, so I decided to buy myself a seiza bench, and found that that's too painful as well. However I have found that doing seiza on a zafu is better, I turn it on it's side as it is higher than a bench and so I'm putting less pressure on my knees (where some of the arthritis is). I wanted to ask where the knees should be situated, is it ok if I spread my knees further apart, or are they meant to be closer together? Personally I find it much more comfortable when they are spread further apart. However most photos I've come across of the seza position people have their knees close in, so I was wandering if I was doing it wrong?

For any teachers or those who do Seiza, please feel free to comment and give me any advice.

Thanks a lot.

Gassho.

Greg

[Jishin]

Seiza posture

Hi Greg,

Pick a position that is stable, balanced, keeps you alert and is not painful. You are the expert on your body.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_ , LAH

[Shokai]

Hi Greg;

. If you are more comfortable sitting with knees apart go for it. The main object is to position your spine erect. I've recently had to sit in a chair to accommodate a hip/knee problem and my zazen is just as effective. Good luck with that.

gassho, Shokai

stlah

[Jundo]

Just what they said.

Pick a position that is stable, balanced, keeps you alert and is not painful. You are the expert on your body.

If it feels comfortable and stable, then it is. Listen to one's own body.

By the way, "Seiza" in this way of turning the Zafu sideways is, as far as I know, a Western invention ... and a very good and practical one too. For that reason, there is no "rule" about it, and the point is that one should do what feels right.

Just for clarification, traditional "Seiza" in the Japanese way is very very different. I do not recommend Japanese Seiza at all for Zazen. Here is Japanese Seiza where one actually sits on the ankles ... good for tough Samurai (and martial artists perhaps) who do not mind and wish to mentally transcend the pain bound to follow (even most Japanese born after WW2 cannot sit Seiza for more than some minutes).



Here is Zen Seiza on a modern Bench ... probably also a Western adaptation, as I have not seen them used in Japan. However, a positive adaptation I feel ...



Here is with upturned Zafu ...



Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Mp]

Hey there Greg ... others have already shared the most important message, find a stable position that works for your body - it is as simple as that. =)

I remember once sitting in tradition seiza during a Aikido seminar ... I do not recommend that, ouch!

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Shoki]

Greg,
I am no expert on posture but many years ago I badly sprained my ankle playing basketball. For a long time the only position I could sit with was the seiza with the zafu on its side as stated. Good luck and hope you feel better.

Gassho LAH
Sat today
James

[Jakuden]

Hi Greg, it’s so nice to see you back!

I also sit seiza with knees farther apart. I push my abdomen out slightly and that seems to relieve some pressure on my lower back. I find it is very similar to riding a horse, with a flexible, forward tilted pelvis and an invisible center of gravity line that goes from the top of the head straight down through the seat bones. It is very stable.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[moshezhang88]

Hi Everyone.
Greggarious, you might want to add a thin but stiff cushion on top of the seiza bench?? just a suggestion though...

I have not been very successful with the cross legged position much in my life..... and sat for many years with no one to help with input.... so played with the idea alot. Also fight scoliosis, and "getting those kinks out" has become VERY important.... but my back is better at 63 than it was at 25..... sooo.... can't have had a negative impact....

After I came to China, where they have these 'teeny tiny" little stools.... because they squat so much.... i bought one and I cut the two front legs a bit shorter....
had a hard time finding proper sitting cushions here as well. Also tend to slouch to the left.... too many years driving long miles......
Finally bought a Chinese Pureland type sitting set which is a stiff zabuton filled with a hard straw kind of fill and a sloping kneeling pad (mostly for prostrations, i think) ... so I improvised placing the sitting pad on top of the stool, which doesn't allow me to slouch to one side or the other....
Did a few photos.... please ignore the model and short pants i can sit on this for 30 or 40 minutes very comfortably...... well.... not TOO comfortably, right ?
Must say though, after doing the rohatsu with 12 zazen periods a day, the legs were not acting so 'expert'

Anyways, although i sometimes still try to do a short sitting in Burmese style, I always go back to this....
Solid, sit straight, and can totally relax the whole upper body.....


My 2 cents (well, liang fen, as it is renminbi...

sat today... seiza....
Gassho
Shou AnSeiza bench 1.JPGSeiza bench 2.JPGSeiza bench 3.JPGSeiza bench 4.JPG

[Seishin]

Greg

Another seiza sitter here but not the classic style I used to sit for a couple of decades in martial arts dojos. Now I sit with the zafu in it normal position (not on side) with my ankles either side, rather than tucked under my butt. Knees drop naturally wide like this which gives me a good stable base and my hips/pelvis are still higher than my knees. My only problem in the last few months is getting down to this position, as my left cartilage has been giving me some grief. If I sit down carefully and slowly all is well once I'm in position. Funny as I've tried Burmese a few times this year when the knee's been too sore. Guess as long as you are stable you are good.

[Myogan]

Last year I overstuffed my Zafu and find it much better for my height and spacing of the legs. Some members of the local sitting group like a loose buckwheat Zafu placed flat under a fabric stuffed one on its side.
All bodies are different, listen to yours.

Gassho
Sat

[Entai]

Greg,
I sit in that position too. I find it to be more stable with knees further apart. And it's pretty much the only way that doesn't cause my legs to go numb. I see that as a plus.
Gassho, Entai
#SatToday /lah