Buddha and God(s)

[Daiyo]

Hi all.

I was wondering if you know where I can read about the zen (others traditions also) views about God.
Was the Buddha aware about monotheistic religions like Judaism or other religions besides hinduism?

I know that he refused to discuss about God or Gods, but I'd like to know what did he say and what other masters said about an almighty god, creator of everything and father of all.

Gassho, Daiyo

ST/LaH

[Sean]

Hi Daiyo

I don't know a lot about this but I do know that Judaism is the oldest monotheistic religion but actually started out as polytheistic. Brahma is the creator god in Hinduism so the Buddha would certainly have been aware of that. Other than that not sure what the Buddha said about God if anything.

Gassho
Sean

Sat today

[Rich]

I can understand why Buddha didn't talk about God. The creative energy is not separate from you. Naming it creates separation. Especially since everyone has a different idea about it.

SAT




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[Jundo]

Hi all.

I was wondering if you know where I can read about the zen (others traditions also) views about God.
Was the Buddha aware about monotheistic religions like Judaism or other religions besides hinduism?

I know that he refused to discuss about God or Gods, but I'd like to know what did he say and what other masters said about an almighty god, creator of everything and father of all.

Gassho, Daiyo

ST/LaH

Hi Daiyo,

There is no evidence that the historical Buddha would have known anything about Judaism, or anything outside Iron Age India. The concept of "Brahma" and the many other gods of Indian religion is somewhat different from the Judeo-Christian idea, in my understanding.

I also understand that the Buddha did not say that there is "no God," but instead that he remained silent on the question as not important to his seeking the medicine for Dukkha ("Suffering" and "Dissatisfaction" in Buddhist meaning). The early Buddhists also turned Brahma and the other Indian gods into part of the Buddhist pantheon, high but finite creatures in whose realms one might be reborn into as part of Rebirth (when Buddhism traveled to other cultures, like China and Japan, it tended to do the same. For example, in Japan, the spirits of the Japanese Shinto "Kami" were often reinterpreted as manifestations of various Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. It was a way to absorb the local beliefs and co-opt them).

I often say, "If there is a God ... chop wood, fetch water and live gently. If there is no God ... chop wood, fetch water and live gently." I believe that one can Practice Zen Buddhism either believing in a God or not believing in a God or anything in between. Some might call what we encounter as the Flowing Wholeness of all Reality as "God" or "Buddha" or "Dharmakhaya" some other name, but I feel it is better not to force a name onto it so easily.

Buddhists will offer a variety of interpretations, some very strictly "no God in Buddhism", some "no difference from God" ... all over the place.


However, if you would like some more opinions on the history of this question in Buddhism in general, Zen in particular ...

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/budgod.html

Master Sheng-yen offers a very Orthodox Chinese Mahayana interpretation, replacing God with Karma ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BBOlDCOgww

From a South Asian scholar ...

https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha068.htm

Now, I have to return to chopping wood and fetching water.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Daiyo]

Thanks Jundo, Rich and Sean.

Gassho
Daiyo

ST/LaH

[Mumeido Grundy]

"If there is a God ... chop wood, fetch water and live gently. If there is no God ... chop wood, fetch water and live gently."

Nicely said Jundo - so, essentially, the question asked (is there a God?) is simply not relevant to practice. Life is what it is. Live it.
Deep bows

Mumeido
SatToday/LAH

[moshezhang88]

wrote something 10 times now..... deleted it 9 times
sheesh.... seems I am reluctant to say this....
In all honesty, I spent many many years wanting to somehow make some sort of agreement between my upbringing (evangelical Christian) and what I was finding as my new reality arising from zazen.
But I sincerely believe that there is a fundamental flaw there.... which is the duality built into the 3 main monotheistic religions, and IMHO, it has to be "let go of" in order to progress.
All three of those religions are STILL struggling with the concept..... (probably because it is a self defeating concept)
As Jundo said, .... In our practice, we begin recognizing that we are all part of the Whole Enchilada (thanks Jundo!) and not some separate essence or thing, from a creator or almighty God.
We are participants in the One Whole......
So, I know it is difficult to let go of, but maybe let it float away naturally..... or not...... there is no rule there....

IMHO (and with my empathy!)
Gassho
Shou An
Sat today

[Mumeido Grundy]

What's IMHO dude?

MumeidoSatToday/LAH

[Shinshi]

What's IMHO dude?

MumeidoSatToday/LAH

In
My
Humble
Opinion

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Byrne]

We come from a culture that makes a big deal about the question "Do you believe in God?" The Buddha didn't feel that it was relevant to his solution to the problem of dukkha. Consequently Buddhism does not actually offer any answers to the question of God whatsoever. Only silence.

"Who am I?" is probably a better question. The word God is meant to be Universal but is understood in so many different and often conflicting ways. Anyone of any spiritual perspective can understand "Who am I?" and can take the question to whatever logical end they need. For some people the question leads to God. For others it doesn't. I suspect that it ultimately comes down to the sincerity of the inquiry and the effort to find the teachers one needs to settle their doubts.

‘A man has a faith. If he says “This is my faith”, so far he maintains truth. But by that he cannot proceed to the absolute conclusion: “This alone is Truth, and everything else is false”.’
-Buddha, Canki Sutta



Gassho,

Sat Today

[Ernstguitar]

Hello,

I am really proactive today and I write my 2nd post. But this issue is something, I have to speak about very often.
My aproach was:
First I want to ask a question about how does zazen or contemplation work at all. So, if you do not think......what could that mean? If you drop body and mind, if it is possible what does that mean? I am a therapist and my thinking-structure is more psycho-oriented. How can a Person exist without thinking or without perception? And how does the mind handle that form of existence.

And so I came to the different descriptions of enlightenment. But it is just the interpretation of this certain experience, I think. And there is where (jewish, Christian or other) God comes in (in my opinion). If you try to read - no matter which Kind of - holy text with this Kind of glasses, you will find the very same in every book.

Gassho, Ernst

sat today

[Jishin]

First I want to ask a question about how does zazen or contemplation work at all. So, if you do not think......what could that mean? If you drop body and mind, if it is possible what does that mean? I am a therapist and my thinking-structure is more psycho-oriented. How can a Person exist without thinking or without perception? And how does the mind handle that form of existence.

IMG_0204.JPG

Hi Ernst,

It’s hard to put into words but maybe:

Thinking = waves.

No thinking = sea.

Thinking non-thinking = sea in motion with waves created and disappearing.

Or maybe sea = 1.

Waves = 2.

Not sea, not wave = what could that mean?

It’s hard to put into words. Some would say “Don’t know”.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_ , LAH

[Ernstguitar]

Hi Jishin,
so far so good. I am with you. But that is an other the metaphor of a non-ego-state. So, that is what I meant with: and now put that in a religious context and you have the "holy book". That is, what I meant. It is (in my opinion), what is religion all about. No matter, which of the main religions is looked at.

and - that are just waves....

Gassho Ernst

[Jishin]

And how does the mind handle that form of existence.

I think therefore I am.

I don't think therefore....

Hard to say. Chop wood, fetch water. :-)

Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAH

[Mumeido Grundy]

Cheers bro.
Deep bows

Mumeido

SatToday/LAH