Does "just sit" = "just be aware"?

[babyleaf]

Hello everyone, I'm a newcomer and really happy to be here.

I was hoping to get your thoughts, insight, opinion on the question: does "just sit" actually mean "just be aware"? Getting lost and coming back seems simple enough as it happens on its own. But from my experience so far it's not clear what to do with our minds during the "just sit" part that follows.

The way I hear "just sit" is that we shouldn't even bring an intention to maintain some form of awareness, but then wouldn't we just zone out? Every time I come back from being lost in thought there is the choice to maintain awareness or not, and what to do is a little unclear to me.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Best

[Jishin]

IMG_0201.JPG



Maybe sit still, neither here nor there but with spaciousness stereoscopic vision awareness like a chameleon?

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_ , LAH

[Jundo]

Hello everyone, I'm a newcomer and really happy to be here.

I was hoping to get your thoughts, insight, opinion on the question: does "just sit" actually mean "just be aware"? Getting lost and coming back seems simple enough as it happens on its own. But from my experience so far it's not clear what to do with our minds during the "just sit" part that follows.

The way I hear "just sit" is that we shouldn't even bring an intention to maintain some form of awareness, but then wouldn't we just zone out? Every time I come back from being lost in thought there is the choice to maintain awareness or not, and what to do is a little unclear to me.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Best

Hi Babyleaf,

Would you mind to sign a first name, and eventually put a picture of a human face, with your posts? It helps to keep things human around here.

I hope you were able to watch our "we're all beginners" videos, which may help with some questions ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?121-A-SERIES-OF-TALKS-FOR-NEW-FOLKS

"Just sit" means to not grab onto thoughts, to not get caught in thoughts about what happened yesterday or what we need to do tomorrow. If caught in thoughts, return to maintaining awareness of the breath or (eventually, when you can) "open spacious awareness" focused on everything and nothing particular. Also, drop all judgments of "good and bad," and sit with the attitude that sitting is the "one activity to do, the one place to be in the whole world" for the time of sitting. We are sitting with a radical sense that there is no "goal" and "nothing to attain" beyond the act of sitting itself, which is the fulfillment of all goals. It is natural to sometimes get caught in thoughts anyway, but just come back to the breath or "open spacious awareness" each time again and again. As much as you can, sit in the open, clear space between thoughts and without judgments.

I recently wrote this about sitting Shikantaza ...

Almost all experienced teachers agree on the basics: One should sit in the Lotus Posture (or, these days, some other balanced way such as Burmese or Seiza or in a chair), focus on the breath or the body or just be openly aware, letting one’s thoughts go without grabbing onto them. If finding oneself caught in trains of thought, return to the breath or posture or spaciousness. Sit daily for a certain length of time, but without objective or demanded pay-off. Do not seek anything from your Zazen, whether “enlightenment” or to become “Buddha” or anything at all. Just Sit!

That’s all correct. But by leaving out the vital ingredient, such explanations can miss the mark too:

Shikantaza Zazen must be sat, for the time it is sat, with the student profoundly trusting deep in her bones that sitting itself is a complete and sacred act, the one and only action that need be done in the whole universe in that instant of sitting. This truth should not be thought about or voiced in so many words, but must be silently and subtly felt deep down. The student must taste vibrantly that the mere act of sitting Zazen, in that moment, is whole and thoroughly complete, the total fruition of life’s goals, with nothing lacking and nothing to be added to the bare fact of sitting here and now. There must be a sense that the single performance of crossing the legs (or sitting in some other balanced posture) is the realization of all that was ever sought, that there is simply no other place to go in the world nor thing left to do besides sitting in such posture. ... Zazen is the one task and experience that brings meaning and fruition to that time, with nothing else to do. This fulfillment in “Just Sitting” must be felt with a tangible vibrancy and energy, trusting that one is sitting at the very pinnacle of life.
https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...A-EXPLANATIONS

We are not "zoning out." Shikantaza can be distinguished from a mere sitting in complacency, resignation and wallowing in a deluded mind, for the very sitting of Peace, Fullness and Completion is fulfilling and wholesome.

Did that help answer the question?

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Meishin]

Hi,

Some Zen teachers say that Shikantaza is for advanced practitioners, that one begins by counting the breath, following the breath, and perhaps koans. My 2-cents worth is that it is difficult if ones believes it will be difficult. Jundo?

Gassho
Meishin
Sat Today LAH

[Jundo]

Hi,

Some Zen teachers say that Shikantaza is for advanced practitioners, that one begins by counting the breath, following the breath, and perhaps koans. My 2-cents worth is that it is difficult if ones believes it will be difficult. Jundo?

Gassho
Meishin
Sat Today LAH

Shikantaza is for anyone.

I do encourage people totally new to follow the breath for awhile, especially if they have no sense of thoughts settling. However, after that, I recommend transition to "open spacious awareness."

Gassho, J

STLAH

[Shinshou]

As far as following the breath, I think I've mentioned before that I did breath-following types of meditation for a long time; then when I discovered Shikantaza it took me months to stop following the breath, so if that's going to be a bridge, make it a short one...or maybe it was just my issue.

My experience through many different meditation techniques is that each is a mix of attention and awareness. Some are high on the attention end (like breath following), some high on the awareness end. In my mind, Shikantaza is almost all awareness, but after awhile, if my awareness becomes...unintentional? relaxed? effortless?...then there is attention wrapped up in that experience of awareness, but not attention on something, just bare attention.

I know that's cerebral and overly analytical. But that's how I roll.

Dan (Shinsho)
Sat Today

[Jundo]

My experience through many different meditation techniques is that each is a mix of attention and awareness. Some are high on the attention end (like breath following), some high on the awareness end. In my mind, Shikantaza is almost all awareness, but after awhile, if my awareness becomes...unintentional? relaxed? effortless?...then there is attention wrapped up in that experience of awareness, but not attention on something, just bare attention.

Cerebral or not, I feel this is a nice description.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Jakuden]

Wow yes, that reminds me of how I used to get stuck on where to put my attention—on noises I heard, the pain in my body, my posture, the dust bunny under the table? Then it grew into a general awareness without a need to focus at all, effortless. Letting all the things lightly touch you and drift away.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[babyleaf]

Thank you all for your replies. It absolutely helps getting everyone's thoughts!

Jundo, thank you for the detailed reply. I'll make sure to put up a photo soon. I've been going through your beginner videos which are very helpful, I just tend to ask a lot of questions, so apologies... I'm also going through your post, "what's often missing in Shikantaza explanations" for further reading.

Thank you all again, I shall keep sitting.

Gassho
Gaby
SatTodayLAH

[Jundo]

Thank you all for your replies. It absolutely helps getting everyone's thoughts!

Jundo, thank you for the detailed reply. I'll make sure to put up a photo soon. I've been going through your beginner videos which are very helpful, I just tend to ask a lot of questions, so apologies... I'm also going through your post, "what's often missing in Shikantaza explanations" for further reading.

Thank you all again, I shall keep sitting.

Gassho
Gaby
SatTodayLAH

Feel free to ask questions. Your questions help others too.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Kyousui]

Another school's take on just sitting

"Just Sitting is allowing a space to open up in which all effort is suspended and from which can emerge something new and even unforeseen, for the progressive trend in conditionality always gives rise to something more and higher than that from which it proceeds and is, in that sense, necessarily unexpected. Sitting silently without expectation, simply watching what is happening and accepting it ..." SOURCE: Initiation into a New Life.pdf https://www.freebuddhistaudio.com/texts/

The school I reference is Triratna thebuddhistcentre.com

Comments from the Shikantaza police appreciated

Sat2day LAH

[Jundo]

"Just Sitting is allowing a space to open up in which all effort is suspended and from which can emerge something new and even unforeseen, for the progressive trend in conditionality always gives rise to something more and higher than that from which it proceeds and is, in that sense, necessarily unexpected. Sitting silently without expectation, simply watching what is happening and accepting it ..." SOURCE: Initiation into a New Life.pdf https://www.freebuddhistaudio.com/texts/

The school I reference is Triratna thebuddhistcentre.com

Comments from the Shikantaza police appreciated

Sat2day LAH

Hi Kyousui,

It is hard to tell from that little quote, but sounds good to me. (Not quite sure what is "for the progressive trend in conditionality always gives rise to something more and higher than that from which it proceeds and is, in that sense, necessarily unexpected." Maybe it just means "just sit and be in wonder at whatever happens.").

I think there are folks here who have more experience with Triratna (formerly, the "Friends of the Western Buddhist Order"), and may be able to comment more. They did have a big scandal over the last few years, but I am sure that it has nothing to do with the majority of its members and teachers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/19/buddhist-sexual-abuse-triratna-dennis-lingwood

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Ryushi]

I guess it speaks to the human impulse to "do something! anything!" that this question seems to come up again and again. It's hard to believe there's nothing more to "just sitting" than, well, just sitting.

Personally I've found "just sit and be in wonder at whatever happens" a massive relief.

EDIT: Sat today. Gassho

[Kyousui]

But I don't think just sitting means just zoning out and daydreaming.
SAT LAH

[Jundo]

But I don't think just sitting means just zoning out and daydreaming.
SAT LAH

No it does not.

It means sitting at the one place to be, the one act to do, in all the world. One is alert and allowing, not too loose and not too tight.

I will offer a talk today during our Zazenkai on Mirror Mind, and I will touch on this. th

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16106-March-23rd-24th-Treeleaf-Weekly-Zazenkai-%28Daylight-Savings-Changes%21%29

Do you have the full link to the document you posted? I would like to read more, but I cannot find it, Kyousui.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH