Anxiety

[Ryumon]

I have a a tooth that’s been infected for a few weeks. It already had root canal five years ago, so I’m off to an Endodontist in an hour to see what can be done.

I’m very anxious, and I’ve been increasingly anxious before all types of medical appointments in recent years. I wasn’t always like that; I had some serious health issues in 2005, and seeing specialists never really bothered me (though I got a bit claustrophobic in MRI machines).

So, today, I’m trying to logic this out. If there is no self, what part of me is anxious? How can one come to terms with this from a zen point of view. It’s not possible to just let it pass; it’s much stronger than that. Even if my conscious mind is distracted my unconscious can’t stop thinking about it.

Gassho,

Kirk

[Seishin]

Kirk

I can only say, sorry I don't know and will leave those answers, assuming there are some, to our more learned members. Just wanted to say I'll be thinking of you and hope all goes well.

[Kyotai]

Hey Kirk,

Just my two cents on the matter and I will let any folks in mental health correct me if need be. We sometimes fall into patterns where our stress response to specific environments becomes reinforced over and over until that becomes the automatic "go to". Neural pathways and such. I am not sure all the zazen in the world can undue these triggers we build up in our minds. But certainly in the mean time, just be with that anxiety, watch it and and let it pass.

I am dealing with some pretty heavy anxiety myself these days. Easier said then done, I know. You are certainly not alone.

It will pass. We are here with you.

Gassho Kyotai



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[Jishin]

Anxiety

Anxiety is natural and good. Think of anxiety as a pyramid. In the bottom you may lay on the couch unemployed and order pizzas. No stress or drive. Middle of pyramid is normal stress. Spike in stress if a car tries to run you over so you do something about it. You also worry about making rent so you get a job. Above normal and a little higher in the pyramid you may run around stressed out but may be more productive. At the top you have severe spikes in anxiety and these are paralyzing and sometimes called panic attacks. It’s just unspent mental energy and some have more than others.

What to do do about it? I got no clue since I am not you.

[emoji2]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_ , LAH

[Jundo]

Anxiety is to be nervous about what is, or what one imagines mentally might be an impending "what is" (like a bad diagnosis one is mentally anticipating). One is unwilling to accept one's sickness and, perhaps, impending pain or even mortality.

Sometimes, one sits with "what is" ... allowing sickness, pain and mortality ... and that is medicine for our anxiety.

Sometimes, one sits with "what is" ... and that "what is" -includes- the anxiety, which we just allow to rage as "what is." At least, that takes some of the gasoline from the fire as we resent and resist the anxiety on top of the anxiety.

Of course, I recommend Shikantaza. But I also recommend that you Practice Metta and Tonglen right now for those who may be in worse shape than you.

My Cancer Ango - 2 - In the Waiting Room, Shikantaza, Metta, Tonglen

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15837-My-Cancer-Ango-2-In-the-Waiting-Room-Shikantaza-Metta-Tonglen

Gassho, j

SatTodayLAH

[Jinyo]

Hello Kirk,

I was at the dentist yesterday (always makes me anxious) - and that probably goes for most of us.
I hope the problem's now sorted and you're Ok.

I'm not sure the notion of 'no self' can help with anxiety. Like 'emptiness', and a whole raft of other ideas, I see the notion of 'no self' as skillfull means - the use of words and ideas to help us experience/understand something that can't really be fully expressed in words.

This is just my thoughts - in the messy world of lived experience we're always going to have a 'self' and why would we want to eradicate it when 'the self' is precisely what helps us to have empathy with our fellow beings. It's the shared experience of anxiety and other emotions that loosens that tight, fixed notion of self that we have and paradoxically enables us to dissolve the bounderies between self and other. The self may be fluid/impermanent - but its not going to go away and it's our necessary anchor in the external world.

So - there's a part of your 'self' that has anxiety - and no doubt lots of ways of helping the anxiety to reduce. I won't suggest methods because I think everyone has their own key and it takes a bit of shopping around to find the right fit. Visualization works for me at the dentists but I'm sure other members have other helpful tips.

Gassho

Willow

ST

[Tenrai]

Hi Kirk,
Particularly like Jundo and Willow's contributions to this specific condition.
As Willow says, you may need to shop around for a particular technique. At a recent dental extraction I had, I tried to use mindful breathing which did seem to help, just focusing on my breath while the dentist did their thing in my mouth.
Jundo offers such a clear and simple interpretation of anxiety from a zen point of view which I think was what you were mainly asking. Thank you Jundo as I will certainly reflect on this and use your words myself
Gassho
Richard
SAT/LAH

[MyoHo]

well, I had all four wisdom teeth pulled in difficult procedures. All I can say is that it helps to keep the mind at what is actually true and avoid believing the stories that arise naturally. " What if it gets infected, what if there are complications, etc." Most often we suffer so mutch by our own creation. You will stand outside the dentists again in no time but maybe suffered for days in advance investing in all kinds of self told stories of pain and agony. I'm sure it will be fine brother.

Gassho

MyoHo

[Mp]

Hey Kirk,

Yourself is anxious ... no self doesn't mean we live life without a self. When anxious, be anxious ... know that this will pass and you will be ok in the end. It is never really that fun to see any Dr., but know they are they to help, which is a good thing. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Jishin]

Anxiety

When I see a physician other than my general practitioner or psychiatrist I poopy in my pants and clean myself up when I get home. That’s all. No shame in that.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_ , LAH

[Hoseki]

Hi Kirk,

I don't have any advice for you. Just know you are not alone in this.

Gassho
Sattoday
Hoseki

[Eva]

Hello Kirk,
first of all, I hear you . I get rarely anxious, but I do remember those cases well .
I don't have advice but just something I have noticed ..

One can't reason with Reason . It's endless and fruitless. Even if you find a solution that satisfies you , it only lasts for a short time .

Sometimes it helps to feel gratefulness for the feelings you have (anxiety for example). It only means that you have a sound functioning body and mind, capable of all kinds of emotions and feels and thoughts. Also, what would be an alternative? Why not say thank you for this opportunity to really be alive in this moment, for your body for the possibility to get healthy again and for your mind doing exactly what a mind does .

I hope your appointment goes well and you will be pain free soon .
Eva
Gassho,
sat today and LAH

[Eishuu]

I've found that when I'm anxious it helps not to make a problem out of the anxiety. In a way it's part of the make up of our brains/nervous system that we are born with. If I just feel the feeling in my body and let it be there sometimes it's less of a problem. Also I found a really helpful CD on anxiety years ago that suggested actually trying to make the anxiety bigger - expanding it. Paradoxically when you do that the resistance to it disappears and it stops feeding on itself and often dissipates.

Hope your appointment went well...I imagine most people are anxious before a dentist appointment.

Gassho
Eishuu
ST/LAH

[Jakuden]

Hi Kirk, just another sympathetic voice here. I have tried to go deeper into my anxiety episodes when they happen to see if I can identify a source I can work with... and find that they seem to arise from beyond my conscious mind, with a life of their own, an ancient fight-or-flight response. I hate it, lol! Especially when I have to have an anxiety attack over something I’ve routinely done for decades, like a dog spay. WTH? I see anxiety get worse with animals as they age, so I figure maybe it does for people, too. Just another pain in the a$$ to sit with, along with all the others. 🤨 Right there with ya!
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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[Ryumon]

Thanks for all the advice.

I have tried to go deeper into my anxiety episodes when they happen to see if I can identify a source I can work with... and find that they seem to arise from beyond my conscious mind, with a life of their own, an ancient fight-or-flight response.

Yes, that's how I feel. That's why, this morning, I was trying to analyze it, thinking that it was irrational, but it's stronger than the conscious mind.

It's over now, but when I have to have the big work in a month or two, it will be back. Sigh.

Gassho,

Kirk