The four noble truths - book recommendations?

[pthwaites]

Hi all,

I'm looking for a book which explores the four noble truths from a zen perspective - something with a practical orientation which can supplement my meditation would be perfect. Does anyone know of anything like that?

Gassho

Sat today

Peter

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[Jundo]

Hi Peter,

It is actually not so easy. My feeling about the reason for that is, in Zen and the Mahayana, the Buddha's Teachings on the Four Noble Truths has been one of many Teachings and aspects of Buddhist Practice. It is very basic to all Buddhists, but rarely addressed as the one and only thing to remember for Mahayana Buddhists or Zen folks. So, I know some Zen books that touch on the Four Noble Truths for some pages, but not any in which it is the central or unique theme of the book. (It would be like a book on baseball that only discussed 1st base as the central theme, rather than part of the whole).

Perhaps one book that touches upon it more than most is ...

Buddhism Plain and Simple: The Practice of Being Aware, Right Now, Every Day is Steve Hagen

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0804843368/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

I just looked at it briefly for you, but really have not read it in years. So, I am not 100% sure. It seems to have a few chapters devoted to each of the "Four Truths." Steve is a fellow known for giving a very modern, down to earth interpretation of his Zen and Buddhism ...

... but I really don't recall more about the book. Perhaps I will look at it again more in the coming days if I can find it on the shelf.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[RichardH]

In my own experience, the Four Noble Truths from a Zen Buddhist perspective, is in the context of our vows.

The Four Noble truths are...

There is Dukkha. It is usually translated as suffering, dissatisfaction, etc, but it also refers to very subtle aspects of conditioned existence, impermanence and so forth..
There is the "cause" or what conditions Dukkha. This points to a teaching called dependent origination, which has a general and a specific side, and basically looks at ignorance and grasping.
There is the ceasing of Dukkha.
There is the practice of that ceasing. The beauty of our way IMHO, is that Shikantaza is both the practice and the fruit of the Eightfold Way.

Jundo's teachings on the Buddha basics are here... https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/foru...-Buddha-Basics. There is also his Book of Gudo Wafu Nishijima's teachings https://www.amazon.ca/Heart-Chat-Bud.../dp/0692374337. Gudo's take on The Buddha basics are inspiring IMHO.


Our vows are as follows...


To save all sentient beings though beings numberless
To transform all delusions though delusions inexhaustible
To perceive reality though reality is boundless
To attain the Enlightened Way, a Way non-attainable.

These vows evolved from the Buddha Basics, the Four Noble Truths. They grew out of an understanding that Dukkha, Suffering, is common to all beings, the maturing of compassion, and a deep realization of inter-connection and responsibility.

Hope this is helpful.

Gassho
Daizan


sat today/LAH

[Shinshou]

The four noble truths are common to all buddhism, but my impression is that in Mahayana buddhism the focus is less on the four noble truths and instead concentrated on the six (or ten) paramitas. Is this correct?

Dan - Shinsho
Sat today

[RichardH]

The four noble truths are common to all buddhism, but my impression is that in Mahayana buddhism the focus is less on the four noble truths and instead concentrated on the six (or ten) paramitas. Is this correct?

Dan - Shinsho
Sat today

The four noble truths are always in play even if they are not emphasized. The Heart Sutra says that, like all things, they are empty. It does not say that they are an error. Developing the Paramitas is part and parcel with the Bodhisattva vows, and these vows are about ending suffering.


Gassho
Daizan

sat today
LAH

[Jundo]

The four noble truths are always in play even if they are not emphasized. The Heart Sutra says that, like all things, they are empty. It does not say that they are an error. Developing the Paramitas is part and parcel with the Bodhisattva vows, and these vows are about ending suffering.


Gassho
Daizan

sat today
LAH

Yes. The Four Noble Truths are so very basic to all paths of Buddhism, Soto Zen no less. Realizing the "emptiness" of the Four Noble Truths and all things is, in face, a vital aspect of the medicine for Dukkha (Buddhist "Suffering""Dissatisfaction") which is at the heart of the Noble Truths. The Paramitas (Virtues) are also a face of this same medicine, an expression of the "Eightfold Path," and not different.

Kyonin linked on another thread to today to some short talks on the Paramitas ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8860-Whattsa-Who-sa-Bodhisattva-%28A-Sit-a-Long-Series%29

Also, Dukkha and the rest of the Four Noble Truths are the focus of my "Buddha-Basics" talks ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?64-Buddha-Basics

Gassho, J
SatTodayLAH

[Daiyo]

Hi all, this thread is very interesting for me.

As you may know I work as a coluntering for the Scout Movement.
In our Organization, there is a place for many religions or beliefsm and Buddhism is one of them.
The founder (Lord Baden Powell of Gilwell) thought spiritual development was inseparable from the other aspects of a person's development.

Now I'm collaborating in the task of training adult leaders, and I need to prepare a sort of an introductory course for buddhists. More of a meeting than of an actual course, I'd said.
The participants may be from any tradition, or maybe just starting their way, searching for the tradition that fits them.

I was planning to sit zazen together, exchange experiences about practice, discuss how are buddhist values embedded in or related to the values we adhere to (we have a Law and a Promise) and perhaps close chanting the Heart Sutra.
So I am collecting sources from where I can get simple, down to earth explanations of the basic buddhist teachings, to share with these fellows.
They could be videos, books, quotes, etc.
If possible in spanish, (or with subtitles if videos) because I don't know if I will be able to translate because of the time it takes and because my knowledge is only that of a beginner.
However I could attempt to translate the most basic things.

I was thinking about "What The Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula and "Good Question, Good Answer" by Ven. S. Dhammika.
I also thought about "Opening The Hand Of Thought" or "Zen Mind Beginner's Mind" but perhaps they are very zen-specific.

What do you think? Can you give some advice or ideas?

Gassho,
Daiyo

ST/LaH

[aprapti]

i like the book of Thich Nhat Hanh, the heart of Buddha's teaching, very much.heart2.jpg

[RichardH]

Personally, if someone asks for a good “down to earth” introduction, I have suggested Charlotte Joko Beck’s “Nothing Special” . The reason is that she gets at the tough nut of things in every day language. She was a Zen teacher, but it is universal. With the Theravada there are free books by Ajahn Sumedho and his students that have a grounded, non-sectarian, tone. However, again just personally, I would have some caution with some of the traditional, Asian, Theravadin sources, because there can be a focus on correctness of held doctrine, which may not be so helpful.

Gassho
Daizan

sat today

LAH

[SoR]

There is a short, two-page, chapter on the Four Noble Truths in The Compass of Zen by Zen Master Seung Sahn.

Screen Shot 2018-01-19 at 3.25.36 PM.jpg

[Daiyo]

I would have some caution with some of the traditional, Asian, Theravadin sources, because there can be a focus on correctness of held doctrine, which may not be so helpful.

Hi Daizan, could you elaborate on this?

You mean perhaps that there is the tendency to consider the other traditions as wrong?

I'm not sure I understood your point.

Thanks and regards.

Gassho,
Daiyo

ST/LaH

[RichardH]

Hi Daizan, could you elaborate on this?

You mean perhaps that there is the tendency to consider the other traditions as wrong?

I'm not sure I understood your point.

Thanks and regards.

Gassho,
Daiyo

ST/LaH

Hi Daiyo. Even though the Buddha Way has been a living, evolving, way, we humans have a way of locking down on it. No tradition is free of that. So I would look at the tone of the writing. Is it focused on establishing and defending a particular interperation of doctrine, or is it focused on helping?
That’s all. Having a background in different Buddhist traditions has taught me to be mindful of that.

Gassho
Daizan

[Daiyo]

Thanks, Daizan.

Now it's much more clear.
I've read those two books by Walpola Rahula and S. Dhammika a while ago, when I was starting to discover Buddhism and they seemed quite useful.

I'll re-read them now with more exposure to other teachings (mostly zen) and see if they go as you mention.
I think I could be able to discern that now.

Gassho,
Daiyo

St/LaH


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[Jundo]

Thanks, Daizan.

Now it's much more clear.
I've read those two books by Walpola Rahula and S. Dhammika a while ago, when I was starting to discover Buddhism and they seemed quite useful.

I'll re-read them now with more exposure to other teachings (mostly zen) and see if they go as you mention.
I think I could be able to discern that now.

Gassho,
Daiyo

St/LaH


Enviado desde mi SM-G531M mediante Tapatalk

Yes, Buddhism comes in many flavors, Zen Buddhism too. I often say that they are always "exactly the same, but sometimes very different: often quite different, yet just the same."

The books by Walpola Raula and S. Dhammika or Ajahn Sumedho would have a take on Buddhism more in line with Theravadan perspective, which not always will be shared by Mahayana and Zen folks. Interpretations of the Four Noble Truths can be samely extremely different too, as can approaches to the medicine for Dukkha.

I have some links on "reading Buddhist/Zen books" of varied and often quite different flavors, that might be helpful ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6567-Special-reading-eight-types-of-enlightenment

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6514-Special-reading-once-born-twice-born-zen-%28part-not-1%29

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6539-Special-reading-once-born-twice-born-zen-%28part-not-2%29

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Daiyo]

Thank you Jundo.

I will read those threads.

Gassho,
Daiyo

ST/LaH


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