Diversity in Buddhism

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  • Seizan
    Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 213

    #31
    Originally posted by wtylerallen
    I'm a drummer and naturally "musical" person - so I've always been drawn to anything rhythmic. I did the japa thing - Hare Krishna mantra, Ganesh mantra, or even repetitive mantras to Tara or Buddha. It wasn't so much as a means of praise/worship, but more so a consistent task that quieted the mind.

    Japa has kind of taken a backseat, and now I just do the heart sutra or another sutra, but there's almost a soothing (but dramatic) silence when repeating a sutra or mantra 108+ times and then stopping. There's a few fun Buddhist mantras I may explore prior to sitting Zazen.


    Ps. Kirtan artist, Krishna Das does a wonderful Tara mantra.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnzUQsJkUnk
    I, too, enjoy japa. Your description of the following silence speaks to my heart. In my personal routine, I practice japa before zazen. I consider myself a "non-denominational buddhist." The Dalai Lama says the order of practice is morality, concentrated meditation and wisdom. He equates concentrated meditation to calm abiding (sounds a lot like zazen, eh?). Indeed, calm abiding or zazen is the desired state. I particularly like this passage from How to Practice:

    "With a conscious mode of behavior, concentrated meditation, called calm abiding, can be accomplished. Still, your mind is too scattered for increasingly effective meditative practice which requires full concentration. Even a small noise here or there can immediately distract you... it is absolutely necessary to make the mind much more focused so wisdom can take hold..." He goes on to describe methods of meditation not typically found in Soto Zen, ending with "To be endowed with calm abiding, the mind must have the stability to hold fast to one object, but this alone is not sufficient. The mind must also be clear, but this, too, is not enough. Its clarity should be intense, alert, and sharp; the mind cannot be even a little dull."

    I find japa and other forms of meditation prior to zazen extremely helpful sometimes. At work, my mind is constantly engaged. I am frequently staring at screens, answering difficult questions or leading education programs... It can be hard to relax. Of course, I can just sit, but on a rough day it takes a very long time before I feel the mental "give" as I slide into just sitting. Sometimes, my meditation timer goes off and I feel like I didn't even spend a whole minute just sitting! Japa meditation helps me reach that state in a fulfilling and satisfying way; zazen is then easier to access. I do practice zazen throughout my day, without japa, in small increments but I recite mantras at the beginning of a longer sit.

    Thank you for sharing this wonder Tara mantra!

    Deep Gassho,
    Seizan
    Sattoday

    Comment

    • Amelia
      Member
      • Jan 2010
      • 4980

      #32
      Lucy, I appreciate what you said. I also used to chant a lot of different mantras before I began to practice Zen, and I still have a lot of gratitude for them because they helped me to understand better some aspects of Zen practice that I might not have otherwise been on board with. Actually, at that time I was becoming frustrated by just how many different forms of yoga and gurus there were out there-- I was struggling with and worried about finding the "right one," and trying to compromise my Catholic upbringing appropriately. When I discovered Zen I felt very relieved by just how simple it seemed to be. It presented itself to me at first as the "main thing" that was at the center of all of the other practices and I never went back.

      As I started to learn about Zen rituals and some of the practices here, I hit a speed bump because I wanted nothing to do with that stuff again. I had just gotten over the need for anything that looked like ritualized worship or superstition by finding Zen, and then as I dug deeper I discovered that Buddhism had a lot of the same stuff. I wanted to become a little radical and ignore Jukai, sewing, and chanting. Also I figured I was a good enough person, so I didn't worry about taking the precepts very seriously at all. I also wanted to avoid the standard posture for sitting, because I was just fine with some various yoga poses and I knew that buying a zafu wasn't going to make me any more enlightened than just sitting anywhere and any way. I was kind of making my own hedonistic Buddhism.

      But time went on and I remember watching a video by Taigu in which he mentioned that if you're going to practice Zen, you need to throw yourself into everything it's got, fully. Just do one practice; try not to mix it up and bog it down with all your own ideas of what would be better without getting really into it for some years. See what it's really got, what it has to show you.

      I took that to heart and started to take note of all of our rituals and readings. I kind of hated doing a lot of it, but slowly that resentment turned to familiarity and comfort. I also started to realize what the ritualized movement really meant: it wasn't to curry favor with the Buddha's, but for the sake of itself. Bowing to bow, eating to eat, and so forth, like every little thing we do as we live. Everything in life is practice.

      Gassho, sat today, lah
      求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
      I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

      Comment

      • Tairin
        Member
        • Feb 2016
        • 2921

        #33
        That's a wonderful post Geika .

        Gassho
        Warren
        Sat todat
        泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

        Comment

        • Shokai
          Dharma Transmitted Priest
          • Mar 2009
          • 6471

          #34
          it wasn't to curry favor with the Buddha's, but for the sake of itself. Bowing to bow, eating to eat, and so forth, like every little thing we do as we live. Everything in life is practice.
          Beautiful!!

          Gassho, Shokai
          sat/LAH
          合掌,生開
          gassho, Shokai

          仁道 生開 / Jindo Shokai

          "Open to life in a benevolent way"

          https://sarushinzendo.wordpress.com/

          Comment

          • Meitou
            Member
            • Feb 2017
            • 1656

            #35
            Originally posted by Geika
            Lucy, I appreciate what you said. I also used to chant a lot of different mantras before I began to practice Zen, and I still have a lot of gratitude for them because they helped me to understand better some aspects of Zen practice that I might not have otherwise been on board with. Actually, at that time I was becoming frustrated by just how many different forms of yoga and gurus there were out there-- I was struggling with and worried about finding the "right one," and trying to compromise my Catholic upbringing appropriately. When I discovered Zen I felt very relieved by just how simple it seemed to be. It presented itself to me at first as the "main thing" that was at the center of all of the other practices and I never went back.

            As I started to learn about Zen rituals and some of the practices here, I hit a speed bump because I wanted nothing to do with that stuff again. I had just gotten over the need for anything that looked like ritualized worship or superstition by finding Zen, and then as I dug deeper I discovered that Buddhism had a lot of the same stuff. I wanted to become a little radical and ignore Jukai, sewing, and chanting. Also I figured I was a good enough person, so I didn't worry about taking the precepts very seriously at all. I also wanted to avoid the standard posture for sitting, because I was just fine with some various yoga poses and I knew that buying a zafu wasn't going to make me any more enlightened than just sitting anywhere and any way. I was kind of making my own hedonistic Buddhism.

            But time went on and I remember watching a video by Taigu in which he mentioned that if you're going to practice Zen, you need to throw yourself into everything it's got, fully. Just do one practice; try not to mix it up and bog it down with all your own ideas of what would be better without getting really into it for some years. See what it's really got, what it has to show you.

            I took that to heart and started to take note of all of our rituals and readings. I kind of hated doing a lot of it, but slowly that resentment turned to familiarity and comfort. I also started to realize what the ritualized movement really meant: it wasn't to curry favor with the Buddha's, but for the sake of itself. Bowing to bow, eating to eat, and so forth, like every little thing we do as we live. Everything in life is practice.

            Gassho, sat today, lah
            This is everything! Thank you Geika for such beauty.
            Gassho
            Frankie
            Satwithyoualltoday
            命 Mei - life
            島 Tou - island

            Comment

            • Eishuu

              #36
              Thanks for sharing that Geika - that's beautiful.

              Gassho
              Lucy
              ST/LAH

              Comment

              • Moth
                Member
                • Dec 2017
                • 15

                #37
                Geika that response was exactly what I needed to read. The familiarity of it struck me like a bolt of lightning. This is me right now. A tourist among many philosophies and worldviews. Just imagine a glut at a buffet picking out his personal favorites because they bring him the most satisfaction....that is me...the hedonist. The ego is such a stubborn beast to tame and I fear that at times I am like the horse that doesn't quicken it's pace until it feels the whip penetrate to the marrow. Could someone fill me in regarding what an earnest practice should look like for a layman? I want to commit to something here while trying to suspend my judgements and limit those egocentric ideals of what I think is best.

                Gassho

                Sat today

                Cj

                Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk
                Last edited by Moth; 12-18-2017, 03:57 PM.

                Comment

                • Eishuu

                  #38
                  Hi CJ,
                  Not sure I'm best qualified to answer your question, but in an attempt to be helpful and as someone who still feels quite new here too this is what I'd say. (And I don't know about earnest practice, maybe just put yourself into it). I think it's recommended to do at least 15 mins Zazen a day. It helped me to start off small and build up. Also, it took me a while to get into the Zazenkais. You can download a chantbook and join in live two way, one way, or do it on demand later or even over a couple of days. There's some chanting, Zazen and kinhin. Chants that I have particularly connected with I have started incorporating into my day. Also I have found reading books from the booklist helpful. For me, making Zen part of my life has been a definite process, and I'm sure it will keep changing.

                  I'm sure someone more experienced can answer this much better. You could always start a thread about it. There's one around here that's fairly recent about people's daily routines but I haven't been able to find it. What I do remember is that everyone's was different.

                  Gassho
                  Lucy
                  ST/LAH

                  Comment

                  • Jishin
                    Member
                    • Oct 2012
                    • 4821

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Moth
                    Geika that response was exactly what I needed to read. The familiarity of it struck me like a bolt of lightning. This is me right now. A tourist among many philosophies and worldviews. Just imagine a glut at a buffet picking out his personal favorites because they bring him the most satisfaction....that is me...the hedonist. The ego is such a stubborn beast to tame and I fear that at times I am like the horse that doesn't quicken it's pace until it feels the whip penetrate to the marrow. Could someone fill me in regarding what an earnest practice should look like for a layman? I want to commit to something here while trying to suspend my judgements and limit those egocentric ideals of what I think is best.

                    Gassho

                    Sat today

                    Cj

                    Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk
                    Hi CJ,

                    I would do a lot of Zazen and maybe read a little Genjokoan:

                    “To study the Buddha Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away. No trace of enlightenment remains, and this no-trace continues endlessly.”

                    ― Dōgen

                    What is self?

                    My 2 cents.

                    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

                    Comment

                    • Washin
                      Senior Priest-in-Training
                      • Dec 2014
                      • 3828

                      #40
                      I also started to realize what the ritualized movement really meant: it wasn't to curry favor with the Buddha's, but for the sake of itself. Bowing to bow, eating to eat, and so forth, like every little thing we do as we live. Everything in life is practice.
                      Thank you for this

                      Gassho
                      Washin
                      sat
                      Kaidō (皆道) Every Way
                      Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
                      ----
                      I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything that I say must not be considered as teaching
                      and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

                      Comment

                      • Ryudo
                        Member
                        • Nov 2015
                        • 424

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Geika
                        Lucy, I appreciate what you said. I also used to chant a lot of different mantras before I began to practice Zen, and I still have a lot of gratitude for them because they helped me to understand better some aspects of Zen practice that I might not have otherwise been on board with. Actually, at that time I was becoming frustrated by just how many different forms of yoga and gurus there were out there-- I was struggling with and worried about finding the "right one," and trying to compromise my Catholic upbringing appropriately. When I discovered Zen I felt very relieved by just how simple it seemed to be. It presented itself to me at first as the "main thing" that was at the center of all of the other practices and I never went back.

                        As I started to learn about Zen rituals and some of the practices here, I hit a speed bump because I wanted nothing to do with that stuff again. I had just gotten over the need for anything that looked like ritualized worship or superstition by finding Zen, and then as I dug deeper I discovered that Buddhism had a lot of the same stuff. I wanted to become a little radical and ignore Jukai, sewing, and chanting. Also I figured I was a good enough person, so I didn't worry about taking the precepts very seriously at all. I also wanted to avoid the standard posture for sitting, because I was just fine with some various yoga poses and I knew that buying a zafu wasn't going to make me any more enlightened than just sitting anywhere and any way. I was kind of making my own hedonistic Buddhism.

                        But time went on and I remember watching a video by Taigu in which he mentioned that if you're going to practice Zen, you need to throw yourself into everything it's got, fully. Just do one practice; try not to mix it up and bog it down with all your own ideas of what would be better without getting really into it for some years. See what it's really got, what it has to show you.

                        I took that to heart and started to take note of all of our rituals and readings. I kind of hated doing a lot of it, but slowly that resentment turned to familiarity and comfort. I also started to realize what the ritualized movement really meant: it wasn't to curry favor with the Buddha's, but for the sake of itself. Bowing to bow, eating to eat, and so forth, like every little thing we do as we live. Everything in life is practice.

                        Gassho, sat today, lah
                        Thank you for this post.


                        Gassho
                        Marcus
                        SatToday
                        流道
                        Ryū Dou

                        Comment

                        • Ryudo
                          Member
                          • Nov 2015
                          • 424

                          #42
                          Apart from being a member of the Treeleaf Sangha I am member of the "Fung Loy Kok" Taoist society as well. Mainly for the Tai Chi aspect as I am one of the volunteer instructors but I also love the Taoist/Confusionist Chanting aspect of it (all Fung Loy Kok temples/High Shrines are devoted to the three religions: Buddhism, Taoism and Confusianism (click the link for a example https://drive.google.com/open?id=18L...QsCo9AiikPySaM )).
                          In the Mallorca branch of the Fung Loy Kok Taoist Society we weekly chant quite long sutra's like the "Ten Thousand Buddhas Sutra" or the "The Northern Dipper Sutra", they take almost one hour to chant (each) and for me it is all good practice.
                          There is no conflict what so ever and I find they (Zen Buddhism and Taoism) are very close and connected in philosofy and practice.
                          If anyone would ask, I would call my practice Zen (because of my daily Zazen, Zen chanting and practice and not in the least my commitment to our Sangha), but "What's in a name?".

                          I am absolutely convinced that both religions offer enough not to need the other but in some cases (like mine) there is no harm in combining.

                          If you find this posting inappropriate or if you think I am wrong, then please let me know.

                          Thank you all.
                          Gassho
                          Marcus
                          SatToday
                          流道
                          Ryū Dou

                          Comment

                          • Doshin
                            Member
                            • May 2015
                            • 2634

                            #43
                            Geika,

                            That was well put. Thank you. I have sat off and on for many years (starting with Trancedental Meditation in the late 1960s, then some Zen, then Vipassana then back to Zen which stuck) but always 'edited' my practice with the accumulation of various teachings. I have chanted when others were watching (i.e., when at retreats) but felt my integration of zen with all other things I learned was good enough. Many years ago I read alot about buddhism, listened to others alot, and then fell into a routine of listening some (mainly Jundo now) and focussing on sitting. Your words have made me rethink where I should venture. Thank you, I like rethinking things, takes me out of a groove into the "great wide open." Hey, a New Year's Resolution.

                            To all others, I do not write on the forum as much as I use too but I read (listen) your words, learn and try to let you know now and then that I learn from all of you and appreciate your experiences. Thanks, even when quiet I am here.

                            Gassho
                            Doshin
                            st/lah

                            Comment

                            • Jundo
                              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 40987

                              #44
                              ANNOUNCEMENT

                              Before I went into hospital, I said that we would think about the following idea:

                              Originally posted by Jundo
                              My recent health experience has made me think about opening discussion here about creating a corner of Treeleaf (perhaps its own Practice Center, much as we have an Art Circle or Oryoki Group) for people who are interested in combining their Soto style Shikantaza with Pure Land/Amida beliefs, Nichiren beliefs and/or Christianity.
                              https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...l=1#post214709
                              Hey Guys,

                              After batting this around with the priests, I think we have decided not to have a dedicated center of the Forum for people who Practice other Practices together with their Soto Zen/Shikantaza, such as Christianity or Pure Land or Nichiren beliefs. The reason is the consensus that we should offer what we offer, that a Karate Dojo teaches Karate and not Tennis. Shikantaza is a unique and whole way unto itself which remains, and will always be, our central focus here. Having a special practice area for other things, such as "Zen and Christianity," "Zen and Pure Land" "Zen & Nichiren" "Jewish Zen" and the like would be distracting and confusing to most of our members who do not Practice such way. Further, there are other resources available in groups on the internet for folks who do Practice such mixed styles.

                              However, that does not mean that I do anything but encourage and support our members who do find that practicing Soto Zen/Shikantaza with other things (from Christianity to tennis ) resonates in their own life. Further, we can continue to discuss that lightly here, from time to time, in individual threads. We support you in what you do, so long as you are also sitting Shikantaza at the heart of it. However, we will otherwise stay pretty purist on Dogen's Way/Shikantaza.

                              Let me note that, during my hospitalization, during the greatest pain after my surgery last week, I must admit that at times I "completely turned things over" to the universe, and remember saying in my heart ... Amida/Kannon/Jesus/Stanley or Whatever ... I turn this over to your discretion and, if there is an ear to listen, you might turn the pain down a bit. I am not completely closed to such things at all. This week, I am heading to my friends Korean evangelical church to pray and roll with Jesus, because I promised to do so ... and it feels right ... to offer comfort there to my friend whose little daughter is very very sick, and he thinks my coming to pray in his church once will help her even a little. I am there! Praise Jesus if it helps that kid! However, here our main Practice is Shikantaza, we are one trick ponies. I think we will stay pretty much as we are.

                              Gassho, J

                              SatToday
                              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                              Comment

                              • Jinyo
                                Member
                                • Jan 2012
                                • 1957

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Geika
                                Lucy, I appreciate what you said. I also used to chant a lot of different mantras before I began to practice Zen, and I still have a lot of gratitude for them because they helped me to understand better some aspects of Zen practice that I might not have otherwise been on board with. Actually, at that time I was becoming frustrated by just how many different forms of yoga and gurus there were out there-- I was struggling with and worried about finding the "right one," and trying to compromise my Catholic upbringing appropriately. When I discovered Zen I felt very relieved by just how simple it seemed to be. It presented itself to me at first as the "main thing" that was at the center of all of the other practices and I never went back.

                                As I started to learn about Zen rituals and some of the practices here, I hit a speed bump because I wanted nothing to do with that stuff again. I had just gotten over the need for anything that looked like ritualized worship or superstition by finding Zen, and then as I dug deeper I discovered that Buddhism had a lot of the same stuff. I wanted to become a little radical and ignore Jukai, sewing, and chanting. Also I figured I was a good enough person, so I didn't worry about taking the precepts very seriously at all. I also wanted to avoid the standard posture for sitting, because I was just fine with some various yoga poses and I knew that buying a zafu wasn't going to make me any more enlightened than just sitting anywhere and any way. I was kind of making my own hedonistic Buddhism.

                                But time went on and I remember watching a video by Taigu in which he mentioned that if you're going to practice Zen, you need to throw yourself into everything it's got, fully. Just do one practice; try not to mix it up and bog it down with all your own ideas of what would be better without getting really into it for some years. See what it's really got, what it has to show you.

                                I took that to heart and started to take note of all of our rituals and readings. I kind of hated doing a lot of it, but slowly that resentment turned to familiarity and comfort. I also started to realize what the ritualized movement really meant: it wasn't to curry favor with the Buddha's, but for the sake of itself. Bowing to bow, eating to eat, and so forth, like every little thing we do as we live. Everything in life is practice.

                                Gassho, sat today, lah
                                Hi,

                                I'm new to this thread - have just read the article this morning (superb) and particularly appreciate Geika's post

                                I learnt so much reading through this thread and it was lovely that members shared how they incorporate other rituals into their main practice of sitting.

                                I understand the reasons for the decision not to have a separate (small) corner to share the above but have to confess I'm disappointed. I thought it was a lovely idea and if clearly demarcated need not detract from the main emphasis here. I feel it would be more welcoming and inclusive because its clear that many of us do combine other elements of ritual/practice with our main Shikantaza practice. It would just be a 'place' of sharing - not a practice centre as such - or a place for specific teaching or any form of evangelising?

                                Would it not be worth giving it a try as it's been considered - I think it could be a valued area of discussion and would not necessarily have a negative outcome.

                                Gassho,

                                Willow/Jinyo

                                ST

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