Diversity in Buddhism

[Amelia]

Much respect, Risho!

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Moth]

There's the parable of the burning house which often comes to mind when I think about rituals, traditions and all the cultural trappings which some would call "baggage." Maybe I abuse this parable in the way I interpret it or maybe I don't but I see rituals and traditions as the playthings which help to lure the kids out of the burning house. I'd like to think I'm beyond playthings but perhaps that's just the kid in me =)

How important is ritual, time honored traditions and cultural flair in everyone's practice here? Is it OK to not want to have a specific flavor?

Cj

Sat today

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[Jippou]

I'm new here, this is actually my first post. I've been a member now for about a week and I am still plying my way through the introductory videos etc. I just thought I would chime in here because this is a topic near and dear to my heart as a Catholic christian who also practices zazen and looks to Zen as a way to further their spiritual growth and identity. I look out into the world through the eyes of love and compassion and see many things wrong with the Church and Christianity today. Ancient Christianity had a well developed practice/tradition of contemplation/meditation that is more or less lost in today's world. There is a revival of interest in Christian mysticism with the modern practice of Centering Prayer and the Jesus Prayer from the East, but Centering Prayer is a new method and the Jesus Prayer is almost inaccessible to anyone not a monk on Mount Athos in Greece. Buddhism in general and Zen in particular however, are accessible to many Americans, if even through secular mindfulness practices. To be frank, I believe practicing Buddhism makes one a better Christian. Much of what claims to be Christian today could greatly benefit from a deep understanding of interdependence and mindfulness to open their hearts and minds to a more spacious understanding of the scriptures etc. not colored by the grasping and judgmentalism of the small mind or their 21st century American biases and preconceptions. I feel confident making this statement because I know many Christians who would agree. Foremost among them the late Thomas Merton, but modern writers such as Paul Knitter as well. I personally know Monks in a Trappist Monastery a short distance from where I live who do zazen. So I would love to have a place to talk with like minded individuals, or even fellow seekers who are interested in Pure Land Buddhism where individuals seek to understand each other in a climate of openness and mutual respect rather than the anger and hostility on much of the internet.

Gasho,

Majere

[broahes]

Warren,

Thank you for posting this article. I too have been guilty of closing my ears off to things, but I think that in the right spirit.. that is ok.

I became interested first in the Soto School, because of it's focus on direct personal experience through practice. I need no more than Shikantaza in this moment. My zafu is my teacher. Satori isn't even an objectified 'ends to the means'. I love that.

To each their own. Create 10,000 sub forums for every loose trinket, and there will always be a 10,001st. I have always found TreeLeaf to be rather open and accepting already.

Diversity? Some of us cough, some of us chant.. some of us wobble. Unity? We all 'just sit'.

PS- I sat today, Brooks '-)

[Amelia]

Cj, I used to be very wary of any rituals that I didn't make up myself to suit my own life, but as I have spent more time practicing Zen, I learned that the rituals in Zen are actually tools for practice-- there is a reason that we do certain things the same way every time. To me, it is about the mindfulness. There are no superstitious trappings for me.

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Tenrai]

I think a place to discuss such matters would be fascinating and useful. It demonstrates a maturity and openness as long as the basic precepts are observed in discussions.

For me personally, the willingness of Treeleaf to have such openness, not to say "my club is the best club and everyone else is wrong" is exactly what drew me here. Let's sit together and learn together.
Gassho
Richard
SAT today

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[Byrne]

There's the parable of the burning house which often comes to mind when I think about rituals, traditions and all the cultural trappings which some would call "baggage." Maybe I abuse this parable in the way I interpret it or maybe I don't but I see rituals and traditions as the playthings which help to lure the kids out of the burning house. I'd like to think I'm beyond playthings but perhaps that's just the kid in me =)

How important is ritual, time honored traditions and cultural flair in everyone's practice here? Is it OK to not want to have a specific flavor?

Cj

Sat today

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

There's the parable of the burning house which often comes to mind when I think about rituals, traditions and all the cultural trappings which some would call "baggage." Maybe I abuse this parable in the way I interpret it or maybe I don't but I see rituals and traditions as the playthings which help to lure the kids out of the burning house. I'd like to think I'm beyond playthings but perhaps that's just the kid in me =)

How important is ritual, time honored traditions and cultural flair in everyone's practice here? Is it OK to not want to have a specific flavor?

Cj

Sat today

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

Even not wanting a specific flavor is a Specific flavor of its own. The Buddha's teachings have molded into many different forms for all types. Our first impressions are never correct. But if we can find a way to temporarily push our opinions and biases to the side (don't worry. We always get them back) and listen to the essence of what is being taught we are in a much better position to accept or reject them. Our personal speculation is not always the best thing to trust.

This is a deeply personal path. If you are sincere in your aspirations you'll eventually find what you're looking for.

Here's a wonderful passage from the Larger Sutra which Pure Land traditions came from.

If, for example, one keeps on bailing water out of a great ocean with a pint-measure, one will be able to reach the bottom after many kalpas and then obtain rare treasures.

Likewise, if one sincerely, diligently and
unceasingly seeks the Way, one will be able to reach one's destination. What
vow is there which cannot be fulfilled?'

Gassho

Sat Today

[Moth]

Cj, I used to be very wary of any rituals that I didn't make up myself to suit my own life, but as I have spent more time practicing Zen, I learned that the rituals in Zen are actually tools for practice-- there is a reason that we do certain things the same way every time. To me, it is about the mindfulness. There are no superstitious trappings for me.

Gassho, sat today, lah

I'm very new to this community so I'm still trying to feel it out. I stumbled upon this page from one of my many Internet rabbit hole sessions and somehow thought I'd explore what this place had to offer. I must confess, I have a rather agnostic/naturalistic view of existence and don't really hold many if any convictions regarding phenomenon I can't understand, nor explain (afterlife, deities, our purpose). It all seems like speculation to me and I tend to gloss over those topics when they come up.

My first experience with Buddhism was at a Wat which hosted meditation sessions with a monk from Burma. I went a few times and learned how to sit and meditate, which if I'm being completely honest here, was all I was really interested in. However, when we got to the ritual aspect of it, I found myself internally resisting. I'm not sure if it was me resisting what I thought was irrelevant to me or if I just didn't quite grasp the importance of it all as a practice. Still pondering that issue.

Cj

Sat today

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[Zenmei]

I personally know Monks in a Trappist Monastery a short distance from where I live who do zazen. So I would love to have a place to talk with like minded individuals, or even fellow seekers who are interested in Pure Land Buddhism where individuals seek to understand each other in a climate of openness and mutual respect rather than the anger and hostility on much of the internet.

Gasho,

Majere

I sit with a group every week that’s mostly based in theravadan practices (guided meditations, the heart practices, etc). I was talking to a lady a while ago about a Christian retreat she was going to. She described the instructions she had been given for meditating and it was 100% shikantaza. She’d never heard of zazen before, but the Christian monks had her doing it. I was amused and impressed.

Treeleaf is usually a refuge from the anger and hostility you find online. I hope this is a climate of openness and mutual respect, and that we can all find some like minded individuals to share with. And some different-minded individuals to share with. I mean, Christianity’s not my thing, but I’d love to hear about how zazen informs your faith and vice-versa sometime.

Welcome to Treeleaf, Majere I look forward to practicing with you.

[emoji120], Zenmei (sat)

[Amelia]

Cj, my advice is to try it. At Treeleaf, we just have a few simple ones, like the meal gatha, chanting, lighting incense, ringing the bells, oryoki, and bowing. There are others, but usually mostly for certain times of the year. We also practice sewing and work practice. To ritualize something is to transfer it to your muscle memory, which leaves the mind free to just be, and this can lead to a feeling of flow. This is how the Dharma can open up in moments like washing the bowls or bowing before sitting. As these things become ingrained in you, the point of them is made clear. After that, you will know why certain rituals are practiced and which ones are most important to you, if any. Many people choose not to include ritual with their sitting practice and that is okay. One of my favorite teachers, Toni Packer, removed most of the traces of ritualized Zen Buddhism from her practice, but she explained that she did so after practicing them intensely for years before becoming a teacher. She understood and respected why they were there, while understanding that they aren't enlightenment or sitting itself.

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Ernstguitar]

CJ, I do the same (without beiing an agnostic or atheist person). I do no rituals (expect when I go to church with my mother: making a cross-sign). It is not that I hate them, not that I cannot understand them (most I do not understand) but it is, that I do not need them.

I need nothing more than Shikantaza in this moment. My zafu is my teacher. I love that.

That is, how I would express it. And there are People ( a lot of People) who want or need rituals. I would not even call me a religious person. I would say, that I am trying to explore the self........
and for this you do not "Need" rituals or diversity or religious comparisons.

I read a lot of books with a lot of different religious backgrouds. I looked at a lot of rituals and a lot of holy books. So, seriously I could say that how I see this things today is the result of 45 years of a religious life.... somehow,yes.

But that was maybe already to much.

just my 2 Cent.

sit today
Ernst

[Moth]

CJ, I do the same (without beiing an agnostic or atheist person). I do no rituals (expect when I go to church with my mother: making a cross-sign). It is not that I hate them, not that I cannot understand them (most I do not understand) but it is, that I do not need them.


That is, how I would express it. And there are People ( a lot of People) who want or need rituals. I would not even call me a religious person. I would say, that I am trying to explore the self........
and for this you do not "Need" rituals or diversity or religious comparisons.

I read a lot of books with a lot of different religious backgrouds. I looked at a lot of rituals and a lot of holy books. So, seriously I could say that how I see this things today is the result of 45 years of a religious life.... somehow,yes.

But that was maybe already to much.

just my 2 Cent.

sit today
Ernst

Great reply! I believe that's basically how I feel about rituals and traditions. It's not that I dislike them or see them as silly, I just don't find them as essential for my practice is all. I make an honest effort however to not be critical of other people's beliefs and practices because I know everyone is exactly where they are supposed to be in that moment, and with that in mind I'm off to sit.

Gassho

Cj

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[Hoseki]

I'm pretty excited about some help sorting out a chanting routine and tying back to my sitting practice if possible. Anyone here have much experience with Chanting?



Gassho
Sattoday
Hoseki

[Rakurei]

I'm pretty excited about some help sorting out a chanting routine and tying back to my sitting practice if possible. Anyone here have much experience with Chanting?



Gassho
Sattoday
Hoseki

I'm a drummer and naturally "musical" person - so I've always been drawn to anything rhythmic. I did the japa thing - Hare Krishna mantra, Ganesh mantra, or even repetitive mantras to Tara or Buddha. It wasn't so much as a means of praise/worship, but more so a consistent task that quieted the mind.

Japa has kind of taken a backseat, and now I just do the heart sutra or another sutra, but there's almost a soothing (but dramatic) silence when repeating a sutra or mantra 108+ times and then stopping. There's a few fun Buddhist mantras I may explore prior to sitting Zazen.


Ps. Kirtan artist, Krishna Das does a wonderful Tara mantra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnzUQsJkUnk

[Eishuu]

Geika, I love your description/explanation of ritual: "To ritualize something is to transfer it to your muscle memory, which leaves the mind free to just be, and this can lead to a feeling of flow. This is how the Dharma can open up in moments like washing the bowls or bowing before sitting. As these things become ingrained in you, the point of them is made clear. After that, you will know why certain rituals are practiced and which ones are most important to you, if any."

I used to do Tara, Vajrasattva, and Padmasambhava mantras. I also grew up in a Nichiren household and have turned to that at times. For me, chanting both clears my mind and gives me something to focus on, and also has a devotional element of surrender and opening the heart. When I started here I found the Zen chanting hard to emotionally connect with, but the more I've done it the more ingrained it's become. Now I wake up at night and my mind is already going over the Kannon sutra by itself instead of findng things to worry about. I find certain mantras or chants just stick - it's like giving my brain a better habit than it's usual self-involved patterns.

This theme for me connects with the precept we have been talking about recently - not discussing the faults of others or praising oneself. There are many different ways to practice and while it's fine to say what works for oneself I think it's easy to get into 'this is better or more pure than that' kind of attitude.

Gassho
Lucy
ST/LAH