This Zazen 2

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  • will
    Member
    • Jun 2007
    • 2331

    This Zazen 2

    You should be able to die while doing Zazen I've heard Muho mention.

    I have seen Jundo sit through an Earthquake.

    Letting go of yourself.

    Shall we "use" Zazen for our own profit? We can't really. No matter how hard we want it, we can never ever have it or use it. There is just this. This emptiness. Who are you really?

    We can talk about habits, tendancies, idealism, misunderstandings, compassion, truth, but none of that is about what is happening on that cushion when you drop any notion of who you think you are.

    We are going to die sooner or later. Of course we are not sure of that and we drop that notion in Zazen. However, if one hasn't done that yet, they should realize that death is eminent.

    Don't avoid the obvious.

    Gassho and good luck
    Will
    [size=85:z6oilzbt]
    To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
    To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
    To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
    To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
    [/size:z6oilzbt]
  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 39221

    #2
    Re: This Zazen 2

    Originally posted by will
    You should be able to die while doing Zazen I've heard Muho mention.

    I have seen Jundo sit through an Earthquake.
    Hi Will,

    Well, if the earthquake had been just a little bigger during that "sit-a-long", you would probably have seen a quick demonstration of "running Zazen". :shock: Especially since my wife and son were in the next room.

    It reminds me of my favorite scene from my favorite movie ever, "Little Big Man" ... Please watch this from the 3:00 minute mark to the end ... in which the great, blind Lakota chief (played by Chief Dan George) goes into the mountains for, he says to the Great Spirit, "today is a good day to die!!" ...

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... jhBw&hl=en

    Well sometimes it is a "good day to die", and sometimes not "a good day to die"

    Now, once I was sitting at Sojiji, the famous temple, in a 150 year old style Japanese building made with 'NO NAILS' (just wood joinery), and a big heavy roof (Treeleaf, actually, is in an old style Japanese building also like that, no nails and a big heavy tile roof). Everyone was Japanese but me, and when a pretty big earthquake hit, nobody seemed to flinch but me. The roof was shaking back and forth. Now, I looked around, but I held my seat ... but none of the Japanese sitters even seemed to look around! I was impressed.

    But, anyway, the old Zen priests at Sojiji still go to the doctor, make sure the fire extinguishers are working, look both ways before crossing the street. And they do that until the very day they find themselves on their deathbed, at which time they compose a final poem, get into the Lotus Position if they still can (I have actually seen this done), and sit Zazen if they can ... that is how they like to die, if life allows.

    Because ....

    ... well, sometimes it is not such "a good day to day", and sometimes it is "a good day to die!"

    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    Comment

    • Dainin
      Member
      • Sep 2007
      • 371

      #3
      Re: This Zazen 2

      Jundo,

      I've loved Little Big Man ever since I first saw it back in 4th grade, and have seen it many times since. I think of that line often.

      Gassho,
      Keith

      Comment

      • Tb
        Member
        • Jan 2008
        • 3186

        #4
        Re: This Zazen 2

        Originally posted by will
        We can talk about habits, tendancies, idealism, misunderstandings, compassion, truth, but none of that is about what is happening on that cushion when you drop any notion of who you think you are.

        We are going to die sooner or later. Of course we are not sure of that and we drop that notion in Zazen. However, if one hasn't done that yet, they should realize that death is eminent.

        Don't avoid the obvious.

        Gassho and good luck
        Will
        If there is no "you" nor "me" nor "time" for that matter, what is dying?

        May the force be with you
        Tb
        Life is our temple and its all good practice
        Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

        Comment

        • will
          Member
          • Jun 2007
          • 2331

          #5
          Re: This Zazen 2

          you would probably have seen a quick demonstration of "running Zazen
          I figured that.

          ... well, sometimes it is not such "a good day to day", and sometimes it is "a good day to die!"
          But what was Shakyamuni's purpose for starting his journey and ending it under that tree? What effected him so much that he left his wife and child to pursue it for everyone? How does that relate to each one of us personally? And why is it called a "great" matter?

          What does liberation from birth and death mean?

          Some may look at this lightly, but it is at the heart of what we are doing here. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't see it as our guiding koan.

          Is a Bodhisattva one who helps those in need, or one who liberates those in need?

          Thanks Jundo.

          I'm sure there is much to learn.

          Gassho Will
          [size=85:z6oilzbt]
          To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
          To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
          To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
          To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
          [/size:z6oilzbt]

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 39221

            #6
            Re: This Zazen 2

            Originally posted by will

            But what was Shakyamuni's purpose for starting his journey and ending it under that tree? What effected him so much that he left his wife and child to pursue it for everyone? How does that relate to each one of us personally? And why is it called a "great" matter?

            What does liberation from birth and death mean?

            With/ no/ hin/drance/ of/ mind/ –
            No/ hin/drance/ there/fore/ no/ fear/
            Oh, hey Will, we are completely and thoroughly liberated from death the moment we sit down on the Zafu. Actually, we are completely liberated 'all the time' (for want of a better expression), but we may not know that so well.

            And I am not kidding you on that ... As Dogen wrote in the Genjo Koan (before he kicked the bucket, of course):

            As all things are buddha-dharma, there are ... birth and death .... As myriad things are without an abiding self, there is ... no birth and death. The buddha way, in essence, is leaping clear of abundance and lack; thus there are birth and death ... Yet in attachment blossoms fall, and in aversion weeds spread.
            Will can no more die when dead
            than Will dies when a hair falls off Will's head.

            Keep in mind these other words from the Heart Sutra ...

            No/ old/ age/ and/ death/,
            No/ ces/sa/tion/ of/ old/ age/ and/ death/;

            Gassho, Jundo
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

            Comment

            • will
              Member
              • Jun 2007
              • 2331

              #7
              Re: This Zazen 2



              Gassho
              [size=85:z6oilzbt]
              To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
              To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
              To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
              To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
              [/size:z6oilzbt]

              Comment

              • Tb
                Member
                • Jan 2008
                • 3186

                #8
                Re: This Zazen 2

                Originally posted by Jundo
                Originally posted by will

                But what was Shakyamuni's purpose for starting his journey and ending it under that tree? What effected him so much that he left his wife and child to pursue it for everyone? How does that relate to each one of us personally? And why is it called a "great" matter?

                What does liberation from birth and death mean?

                With/ no/ hin/drance/ of/ mind/ –
                No/ hin/drance/ there/fore/ no/ fear/
                Oh, hey Will, we are completely and thoroughly liberated from death the moment we sit down on the Zafu. Actually, we are completely liberated 'all the time' (for want of a better expression), but we may not know that so well.

                And I am not kidding you on that ... As Dogen wrote in the Genjo Koan (before he kicked the bucket, of course):

                As all things are buddha-dharma, there are ... birth and death .... As myriad things are without an abiding self, there is ... no birth and death. The buddha way, in essence, is leaping clear of abundance and lack; thus there are birth and death ... Yet in attachment blossoms fall, and in aversion weeds spread.
                Will can no more die when dead
                than Will dies when a hair falls off Will's head.

                Keep in mind these other words from the Heart Sutra ...

                No/ old/ age/ and/ death/,
                No/ ces/sa/tion/ of/ old/ age/ and/ death/;

                Gassho, Jundo
                Hi.
                Yay!
                Then where do zombies come in to the picture?

                May the force be with you
                Tb
                Life is our temple and its all good practice
                Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 39221

                  #9
                  Re: This Zazen 2

                  Originally posted by Filur
                  Hi.
                  Yay!
                  Then where do zombies come in to the picture?

                  May the force be with you
                  Tb
                  LOL
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Dojin
                    Member
                    • May 2008
                    • 562

                    #10
                    Re: This Zazen 2

                    it is very interesting... this life and death thing....
                    there is not difference between the 2 in my opinion.... death is a natural part of life.... we live with death all the time.

                    at every moment a cell in our bodies dies and a new cell is made

                    at any moment our body kills bacteria and viruses that is always present on our skin... in our stomach and intestines, in the air we breath.
                    the average life span of a red blood cell is 3 month ( 120 days ) during our lives all the blood we had changed already

                    to think of it the person who started writing this replay is not exactly the same person who is writing it now....

                    impermanence is all around us.

                    zazen, it is just zazen nothing more nothing less. we are only human.

                    the only thing we can do is to live life as best we can... i think that is the true essence of zazen or zen or buddhism.
                    to live life as best we can, for our and the worlds sake.

                    i bow before you in humility.
                    Gassho.
                    I gained nothing at all from supreme enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called supreme enlightenment
                    - the Buddha

                    Comment

                    • Shindo
                      Member
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 278

                      #11
                      Re: This Zazen 2

                      Hi Guys

                      as I have said before I find intellectualising on this topic tends to be blown away by the reality of impending death. I enjoy Albert Einstein's take on the subject:

                      “I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.”
                      “A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”
                      Kind regards

                      Jools
                      [color=#404040:301177ix]"[i:301177ix]I come to realize that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide earth, the sun and the moon and star[/i:301177ix]s". - [b:301177ix]Dogen[/b:301177ix][/color:301177ix]

                      Comment

                      • Dojin
                        Member
                        • May 2008
                        • 562

                        #12
                        Re: This Zazen 2

                        speaking of Albert Einstein, it is funny but he had some very interesting things to say about Buddhism.

                        Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and spritual; and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity. -Albert EinsteinA

                        human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compasion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security.
                        -Albert Einstein
                        I gained nothing at all from supreme enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called supreme enlightenment
                        - the Buddha

                        Comment

                        • Tb
                          Member
                          • Jan 2008
                          • 3186

                          #13
                          Re: This Zazen 2

                          Originally posted by Zen
                          speaking of Albert Einstein, it is funny but he had some very interesting things to say about Buddhism.

                          Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and spritual; and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity. -Albert EinsteinA

                          human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compasion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security.
                          -Albert Einstein
                          This i can use in my essay. where's it from?
                          //Tb
                          Life is our temple and its all good practice
                          Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

                          Comment

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