For Zen History Wonks Only - Zen Obaku and Amida /Pure Land

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40352

    For Zen History Wonks Only - Zen Obaku and Amida /Pure Land

    Hi,

    The following should only be of interest to real Zen history fans, although there might be some aspects of interest to those trying to join Zen Practice with Christianity.

    In a nutshell, for those who don't know, Amida Buddha is a messiah like figure who, with faith and recital of his name, takes one to a heaven-like "Pure Land" at death where enlightenment is guaranteed. There truly are many parallels to Jesus in that regard.

    In Japan, Zen Buddhism and Pure Land Buddhism are generally very separate, although a few people do practice both. In China, Korea and Vietnam, however, Zen and Pure Land are all mixed together, and have been for a few hundred years since about the Ming Dynasty (although even before that really). There were some tensions when some Chinese Ming Dynasty monks called the "Obaku Sect" came to Japan to practice both RInzai Zen and Pure Land together. Generally, it did not catch on, and Zen and the Pure Land remain separate in Japan.

    The interesting aspect of the article however (to me anyway) is how the Obaku monks gave a very Zenny interpretation to the Pure Land doctrines, e.g., that Amida and the Pure Land is just within us, not an outside being and place. The Obaku folks, as Rinzai monks, use Amida as a Koan during Zazen, etc.

    If you are interested in such an arcane topic, here is the article:



    An additional, very long article on how the Pure Land doctrines were adjusted in many ways to "fit" with Zen (Chan) in China, for those really really interested in the topic.



    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-25-2017, 02:25 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Ishin
    Member
    • Jul 2013
    • 1359

    #2
    I find this very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I don't think that first link works.

    Gassho
    Ishin
    Sat Today lah
    Grateful for your practice

    Comment

    • Eishuu

      #3
      This is really interesting. The first link didn't work for me either - it just led to a 'new post' page.

      Gassho
      Lucy
      ST/LAH

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 40352

        #4
        I chanted to ask that the link be fixed.

        Gassho, J

        SatTodayLAH
        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

        Comment

        • Ishin
          Member
          • Jul 2013
          • 1359

          #5
          Originally posted by Jundo
          I chanted to ask that the link be fixed.

          Gassho, J

          SatTodayLAH
          I KNEW you had superpowers!

          Gassho
          Ishin
          Sat Today LAH
          Grateful for your practice

          Comment

          • aprapti
            Member
            • Jun 2017
            • 889

            #6
            for me both links worked fine.



            Coos
            std/lah

            hobo kore dojo / 歩歩是道場 / step, step, there is my place of practice

            Aprāpti (अप्राप्ति) non-attainment

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 40352

              #7
              Originally posted by aprapti
              for me both links worked fine.



              Coos
              std/lah
              The chanting worked!

              Gassho, J

              SatTodayLAH
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • Byrne
                Member
                • Dec 2014
                • 371

                #8
                Thank you

                Gassho
                Sat Today

                Comment

                • Washin
                  Treeleaf Unsui
                  • Dec 2014
                  • 3796

                  #9
                  Thank you, Jundo

                  Gassho
                  Washin
                  sat
                  Kaidō (皆道) Every Way
                  Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
                  ----
                  I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything that I say must not be considered as teaching
                  and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

                  Comment

                  • Eishuu

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jundo
                    I chanted to ask that the link be fixed.

                    Gassho, J

                    SatTodayLAH
                    Amazing!

                    Gassho
                    Lucy
                    ST/LAH

                    Comment

                    • Rev R
                      Member
                      • Jul 2007
                      • 457

                      #11
                      Many thanks!

                      Comment

                      • Jundo
                        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 40352

                        #12
                        Rev.!

                        Gassho, J

                        SatTodayLAH
                        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                        Comment

                        • Kyonin
                          Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 6749

                          #13
                          Thank you Jundo!

                          After my experience with the Chan friends I am very interested in the subject. I'll take a look.

                          Gassho,

                          Kyonin
                          Sat/LAH
                          Hondō Kyōnin
                          奔道 協忍

                          Comment

                          • Rev R
                            Member
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 457

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jundo
                            Rev.!

                            Gassho, J

                            SatTodayLAH
                            I'm definitely going to have to break out the dog-eared copy of King's Death Was His Koan. Some of the quotes from the Obaku masters are very similar in tone and content to Suzuki Shosan.

                            Comment

                            • moshezhang88
                              Member
                              • Apr 2016
                              • 51

                              #15
                              Hi Jundo
                              Thank you very much for this information.
                              Living in China, I have bumped into a number of "amitofu" monks, and it is great to understand some of the history.
                              I am sure it will be beneficial for my "interactions" (which are not very frequent.. I pretty much keep my thoughts to myself as a foreigner feigning any understanding is kinda frowned on.... ).
                              There is a little "Kwan Yin" temple in our town, and they allowed me to go sit there a couple of times. They are not big on sitting... in fact almost warn against it. Their main practice is chanting... The "shifu" (whom I have never met) is quite difficult to connect with, as he spends most of his time out of the temple.
                              (Sorry for the trivia)

                              Gratefulness
                              Gassho
                              Gerry
                              Sat Today

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