Chanting and language

[Daiyo]

Hi everybody.

As some of you may know, my mother language is spanish.
I wanted to know if it happened to some of you to feel unnatural to chant sutras or the robe verse in english.

It's curious because I do not feel so while chanting in Japanese -I think it is ancient japanese or so- in which i don't understand a word.

It feels also unnatural to chant in spanish although not as in english.

Maybe it's just me, only wanted to comment and ask how it feels for you.

Gassho,
Daiyo

Sat Today / LAH

[Jundo]

Hi everybody.

As some of you may know, my mother language is spanish.
I wanted to know if it happened to some of you to feel unnatural to chant sutras or the robe verse in english.

It's curious because I do not feel so while chanting in Japanese -I think it is ancient japanese or so- in which i don't understand a word.

It feels also unnatural to chant in spanish although not as in english.

Maybe it's just me, only wanted to comment and ask how it feels for you.

Gassho,
Daiyo

Sat Today / LAH

Just to mention, our Heart Sutra recitation for the weekly Zazenkai in two weeks will be in Ukranian, led by Washin. Please join us for that. Two months ago, it was in German.

All our Chants are translations (even the Japanese chants are originally from Chinese, sometimes originally from Sanskrit). Words are just words.

If the heart feels "unnatural", then it is unnatural. If the heart feels natural, then all is natural.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Daiyo]

Thanks Jundo.

Gassho.

ST/LAH

[Kyonin]

Hi Daiyo,

(Writing in English so all Treeleafers understand)

I chant in Spanish, English and Sino-Japanese. Sometimes even in Mandarin because the Heart Sutra sounds very beautiful. There are some Korean chants that I have tried as well. Most of the time I have no idea what I am chanting in any Asian language!

At first it feels odd to chant in Spanish because sentences are way longer than in English. The Heart Sutra, for instance, takes almos 15 minutes at slow pace!

But I like it. It's a matter of getting used to it. I think it's very helpful because at the end you learn and understand better what you say.

Just don't think too much and simply chant

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Taiyo]

Hi Daiyo,

I haven't thought about it much but, even though spanish is also my mother language, it also feels less "natural" for me to chant in spanish, so I do it in English. I guess words are just words indeed

Gassho,
Taiyo

SatToday/LAH

[Michael L]

Hi everybody.

As some of you may know, my mother language is spanish.
I wanted to know if it happened to some of you to feel unnatural to chant sutras or the robe verse in english.

It's curious because I do not feel so while chanting in Japanese -I think it is ancient japanese or so- in which i don't understand a word.

It feels also unnatural to chant in spanish although not as in english.

Maybe it's just me, only wanted to comment and ask how it feels for you.

Gassho,
Daiyo

Sat Today / LAH

I'm with you on this Daiyo. For some reason it feels awkward to chant in English.

Sat Today/LAH

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[Jundo]

Esperanto anyone? Gassho, J SatTodayLAH

---

La Koro-Sutro

Kunsonoro Kaj Gloro
Om. Gloron al la Beata Saĝo Pluirinta.

{Om. Homage to the Blessed, Noble Perfect Wisdom.}

I.
La Avalokiteŝvara nobla, Bodhisatvo, moviĝinte en praktiko de la Saĝo Pluirinta, vidis ke malplenas laŭnature la Kvin Agregatoj.

{Avalokiteshvara, the noble Bodhisattva, when engaging in the practice of the Transcendental Wisdom, saw that in their nature all Five Aggregates are void and empty.}


II.
Jen, ho Ŝariputro, form' malplenas, kaj malpleno formas mem; malplen' je formo ne disiĝas, formo ne disiĝas je malpleno. Kio formas ajn, malplenas tio; kio ajn malplenas, formas tio. Same sento kaj percepto, la impulsoj kaj konscio.

{Here, O' Shariputra, form is empty, and the void is form itself; from void to form is no distinction, for is not distinct from voidness. That which form has, that is empty also; that which empty is, itself has form. The same is true of feeling and perception, the impulses and conscious.}

III.
Jen, ho Ŝariputro, ĉiuj Darmoj havas signon de malpleno; ili ne kaŭziĝas, ne haltiĝas; ne makulas, ne puriĝas; ne mankemas, ne kompletas.

{Here, O' Shariputra, all Dharmas have the markings of the voidness; they have no causation, no cessation; neither tainted, nor yet spotless; neither lacking, nor completed.}

IV.
Tial, Ŝariputro, en malpleno estas ne la formo, ne la sento, ne percepto, ne impulsoj, ne konscio; ne okul', orelo, nazo, lango, korpo, menso; ne la formo, son', odoro, gusto, tuŝo, penso; ne vidaĵo, tiel plu ĝis ne mensaĵo; ne malklero, ne malkler-forigo kaj plu tiel ĝis ne maljuniĝo, morto; ne la maljuniĝ-forigo, mort-forigo; ne la suferado, devenado, haltigádo, vojo; ne kompreno, ne atingo, neatingo.

{Therefore, O' Shariputra, in the voidness there is neither form nor yet sensation, no perception, no impulses, no awareness; nor the eye, the ear, the nose, the tongue, the body, mind; nor yet a shape, a sound, a smell, a taste, a touch, a thought; no seeing-object, thus until no thinking-object; ignorance none, nor ignorance's extinction; and so forth until no growing old, no death; no growing-old's prevention, death's prevention; neither suffering, origination, stopping, nor a pathway; no cognition, no attainment, nor a non-attainment.}

V.
Tial, Ŝariputro, Bodhisatvo scion ne celante, kaj fidinte al la Saĝo Pluirinta, Bodhisatvo per senbara koro vivas. Li, senbaran koron posedante, sen-timulo kaj falsec-venkinto, per Nirvano la subteniĝinto.

{Now, therefore, O' Shariputra, in not aiming at attainment, and relying on the Wisdom Gone Beyond, a Bodhisattva dwells with spirit unobstructed. He, with unobstructed spirit dwelling, unperturbed he overcomes all hindrance; by Nirvana is his last upholding.}

VI.
Ĉiuj Budhoj triepokdevenaj, la fidintaj al la Saĝo Pluirinta, plenvekiĝas al la Plej Perfekta, Ilumino.

{All the Buddhas of the three world-ages, having placed their faith in Transcendental Wisdom, full awake are they to Perfect Great Illumination.}

VII.
Sciu, do: la Saĝo Pluirinta estas eminenta mantro, grandascia mantro, la plej alta mantro, senkompara mantro, mildigil' de ĉia suferado, senfalseca vero! Per la Saĝo Pluirinta jen la mantro transdonita:

{Know then this: the Transcendental Wisdom is a mantram of true greatness, mantram of great knowledge, yea the utmost mantram, mantram without equal, remedy for every ill arising, truth, no deviation! By the Transcendental Wisdom has the mantram been delivered:}

Mantro Kaj Kunsonoro
Gaté, gaté, páragaté, párasamgaté, bodhi, sváhá!

It is from a musical composition called "La Koro Sutro"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kjNpc2jofU

[davidh]

When I first encountered Buddhism it was at a Thai Theravada temple and we used to chant in Pali. I thought that was cool because it was the Buddha's language and it felt like a live connection with the roots of Buddhism. I don't think English (or any other modern language) would feel the same

Gassho

David

Sat today


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[Myogan]

My first exposure was in English, followed shortly after by Korean. The translation they used has similar parsing of the syllables so for me there was no difference.

Gassho
Sat

[Myogan]

And in Korean

[Anso]

I'm french but my first buddhist retreats were in english (in south France). During my only zen retreat, web chanted in sino-japanese. I usually feel more comfortable in english. Don't know why.
Gassho
Anso
Sat2day

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[Kotei]

Hi all,

prior to engaging with Zen buddhism, I was practicing a western type of (non buddhist) humanistic tradition.
There, songs and texts were written in a middle 18th century German, which tends to be heavily decorated and complex for modern ears.
Nothing wrong with it, but it felt more natural, singing our 'down to earth' Heart Sutra without all the pomp.
Trying a German version with Ango last year, was like heading back again. All so overly decorated and complex language.
This Ango, I am singing our version and from time to time Daniela's German version, which is much more simple (in a good way).

Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

[Washin]

Hello everyone,

I thought this would be a right place to share.

Here's the link to the folder with an Mp3 of the Heart Sutra in Ukrainian which was
recently recited at Zazenkai and a PDF with its text (for members who might possibly
read the cyrillic or those maybe interested in learning the East Slavic languages)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4DD2k__yHAGQ2ROLW80Y2RjalE?usp=sharing

Thank you

Gassho
Washin
sat morning sit

[Jundo]

Hello everyone,

I thought this would be a right place to share.

Here's the link to the folder with an Mp3 of the Heart Sutra in Ukrainian which was
recently recited at Zazenkai and a PDF with its text (for members who might possibly
read the cyrillic or those maybe interested in learning the East Slavic languages)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4DD2k__yHAGQ2ROLW80Y2RjalE?usp=sharing

Thank you

Gassho
Washin
sat morning sit

May I upload the Mp3 somewhere and post it to our members, Washin?

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Seishin]

Anso

I hoping to learn the Heart Sutra in French once I've memorised the Treeleaf English version (a task I've set myself for this Ango). I'm hoping this will improve my French by using different subject matters I guess. Can speak OK but after a few years in Normandie still don't understand very well. One of the reasons I joined Treeleaf as I don't have the confidence to try a local Sangha but know there is one at Rennes and another in Fougeres.

BTW thanks for listing those French websites in the other thread. Looking forward to visiting them.
[emoji120][emoji120][emoji120]

STMIZ
Toby

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