Meditation and "inner heat" question

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  • Meian
    Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1720

    Meditation and "inner heat" question

    As usual, I have no idea what to call this, so ....... I have a question. (Question is near end of post.)

    Sitting daily, for 15-20 minutes per session - that's the consistent practice. Cross-legged, sitting upright, but back against a firm cushion or support of some kind, as my spine is not able to withstand that strain alone. My spine has a curvature so sitting completely straight is impossible and painful. These factors are consistent. Other factors change.

    The time changes - usually early morning, but sometimes two or more sessions per day (early morning, midday, evening), sometimes just one, sometimes not starting until midday if my schedule goes wonky. That's the inconsistency.

    I nearly always do a breathing meditation (what I call it, anyway) - regular, controlled, measured breathing. If I remember to count, I silently count the breaths, but I often forget, but for a measured count, although after a while it just becomes automatic and I focus on the breathe itself. I do this with deep breathing. Even my hands get hot as they used to with Reiki (I know some here do not believe in Reiki, but that is a part of my background, from years ago).

    As I enter into a more 'serene' state (my 'zone'), a fairly intense "heat" develops in my mid-section and travels upwards through my heart center. This seems to develop with the breathing practice. I do not sweat (I don't think?), but the heat feels like an "inner fire" (for lack of a better description) that "fires up" and goes in cycles. It happens consistently with every meditation now. I rather like my breathing meditations so I haven't changed that (would prefer not to, they are very useful), but I don't know if this "inner fire" is a result of the breathing meditation, or just biochemical (my age ), or irrelevant to everything and stop thinking so much [That's my question.] Time of day is irrelevant, place is irrelevant, all other factors have been irrelevant as far as I know. The only consistent factors seem to be the meditation and what I am doing in the meditations. I've turned on fans, had windows open, tried the A/C - all irrelevant.

    It is not bothersome (well, I dislike temperature extremes), but if it's a result of the work I am doing, I would like to understand it better because I find it fascinating. If it is biochemical (e.g., age-related), well ..... oh well, that's life.

    I hope that made some sense, and my apologies for another long post.

    Gassho
    Kim
    st/lh
    鏡道 |​ Kyodo (Meian) | "Mirror of the Way"
    visiting Unsui
    Nothing I say is a teaching, it's just my own opinion.
  • Seishin
    Member
    • Aug 2016
    • 1522

    #2
    Kim

    Wow, sorry no answers but something is obviously going on physically. Can't say I've ever experienced anything like this. In fact my sits seem mundane, as in : sit think, wonder about thinking, back to breathe, think about posture, back to breathe, think about breathing, back to breathe, think about eyes wash rinse repeat. Not all days are like this, some are more settled. Never seem relaxed, only ever experienced one session when I felt totally relaxed and found a serene peace, never repeated.

    As long as its not disturbing you, I guess its ok but I'm sure someone here will have an answer or at least an explanation.

    STMIZ LAH


    Seishin

    Sei - Meticulous
    Shin - Heart

    Comment

    • Kyonin
      Dharma Transmitted Priest
      • Oct 2010
      • 6748

      #3
      Hi Kim,

      I have found that whenever I get into deep zazen I experience heat in different parts of my body. Living in Tatooine (Mexico) sometimes it gets super hot and I too have to turn on a fan.

      The internal heat may happen because you are using certain muscles to keep your back straight or to cross your legs. Most of the times we are not aware of this.

      I use my abs and lower back to keep the spine erect, and this generates heat. Not much, but there's effort. When the mind is calm is easier to get hyper sensitive about sublime changes in your muscles and posture.

      Same goes for the legs and sometimes the shoulders. They are tense but so sublime that you need to really pay attention to feel it.

      Perhaps this is generating heat?

      Gassho,

      Kyonin
      Sat/LAH
      Hondō Kyōnin
      奔道 協忍

      Comment

      • Mp

        #4
        Hello Kim,

        I agree with what Kyonin is saying. Sometimes we don't realize we are forcing our posture and in doing so you cam feel warm from that strain. Try and relax and find a natural posture that doesn't take effort and see what happens.

        I know for myself I prefer it to be cooler when I sit then hotter. But this is not because my body is creating the heat ... however when I first started to sit I too did find that warmth or that I was hotter when I sat. But again this came because in the beginning I was trying to find my natural balance, once I found it, my body found its natural tempurature. =)

        Gassho
        Shingen

        SatToday/LAH

        Comment

        • FaithMoon
          Member
          • Jul 2015
          • 112

          #5
          Kim as an experiment you could try taking an antacid (rolaids, tums...) a short time before you sit. If that helps it could suggest mild acid reflux that you become aware of when quieting down in zazen. Might be worth a try based on your description of where you feel the heat.

          Faithmoon
          st
          sat today!

          Comment

          • Kyousui
            Member
            • Feb 2017
            • 358

            #6
            Piti?

            Might this be the sensation of Piti?

            Sat Today

            Kyousui - strong waters 強 水

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 40772

              #7
              Hi Kim,

              I like the suggestions above as possibilities (not sure about piti though).

              Changes in metabolism during sitting, or simply greater awareness of your chest area in breathing and of the natural heat which is always there but which gets little attention otherwise is a possibility (for example, we usually ignore the tops of the ear, but if I ask you now "feel heat developing on the top of your left ear", you may begin to feel such simply by power of suggestion).

              There are some schools of meditation that might give this more value, as the opening of various chakra energies and such (again, not sure about "piti"). In Shikantaza, we do not. It is just more passing scenery to be experienced, then moved beyond.

              Gassho, J

              SatTodayLAH
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • Eishuu

                #8
                I wonder if this would happen if you meditated lying flat.

                I often get a feeling of my centre of gravity dropping down, a deep internal relaxation, and heart opening...it can feel kind of warm. There can be all sort of judgements that my mind comes up when it happens - 'that's pleasant', 'I like that', 'good meditation', etc - but it's just something else to let go of and sit.

                I'm sure there must be lots online about chakras if you want to investigate from a non-Zen perspective. There is the Tibetan practice of 'Tummo' - inner fire, which I thought of when you started mentioning an 'inner fire': thttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo


                Gassho
                Lucy
                ST

                Comment

                • Byokan
                  Senior Priest-in-Training
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 4284

                  #9
                  Hi Kim,

                  Shikantaza is so easy -- there’s nothing to it. And it’s so hard -- there’s nothing harder than just leaving yourself the hell alone for a few minutes! Just a few minutes without checking, analyzing, comparing, labeling, judging, scanning, quantifying, qualifying, defining, managing, reacting, etc. Just a few minutes without fiddling.

                  Following bodily sensations usually only leads to more sensations. At least I hope so... if not you may have quietly passed away. Sensations are endless once you start taking note of them. Hot here, cold there, itchy, crawly, tickly, pressure, burning, pain, pleasure, etc. There’s a lot going on all the time. Your belly really is the furnace of your body. When you stop moving around, your arms and legs will start to cool down and your body heat will concentrate in the middle to keep your vital organs working. Maybe that’s all there is to it. Maybe not. Ruling out any medical issue is important. Otherwise, I would say that you could just let it be. I wonder if the fire actually comes and goes many times throughout the day and night. Other practices, like Kundalini for instance, work more with the bodily sensations but that’s a whole ‘nother ballgame.

                  From a Zen perspective I think that this sensation is no more or less significant than the curtains moving in the breeze. The specific source or meaning of your bellyfire is an interesting question, but maybe not a question that zen will answer directly. If it does answer, it will probably just shout something nutty like “screendoor!” and stand there smiling.

                  Your question brings up more questions. Who feels this fire? Who comes forward to ask the question? That’s something I think shikantaza does answer.

                  But don’t take my word for it.

                  Gassho
                  Byōkan
                  sat + lah
                  展道 渺寛 Tendō Byōkan
                  Please take my words with a big grain of salt. I know nothing. Wisdom is only found in our whole-hearted practice together.

                  Comment

                  • Seido
                    Member
                    • May 2015
                    • 167

                    #10
                    Thanks Byokan, I liked that.

                    Gassho,
                    Seido
                    SatToday
                    The strength and beneficence of the soft and yielding.
                    Water achieves clarity through stillness.

                    Comment

                    • KellyRok
                      Member
                      • Jul 2008
                      • 1374

                      #11
                      Hi Kim,

                      This is a great question and I'm happy that you've asked it. I too have experienced this same heat or burning sensation; many times actually! I also have quite an abnormal curvature in my spine. The major curve resides in my lower lumbar region and this affects my sitting greatly.

                      I'm not close to being symmetrical and forcing my body to sit completely upright is difficult and is not without strain. I've learned that I cannot sit cross-legged for very long because it places too much strain on my hips (even after yoga and multiple stretching techniques) and in turn causes me to have that intense heat at my core. Now, this may not be the case for you. But I mention it because I've found that I have to shift positions at least a few times to alleviate this pressure and firey sensation. I now sit seiza and that has helped. However, I also have severe acid reflux and am on medication for it, so that may be a possibility as well.

                      Like you said, the sensation is not severely bothersome. But it may help to figure out where it comes from; and if it is physical, hopefully be able to correct it.

                      So many wonderful perspectives here, thank you for asking and for others, answering.

                      Gassho,
                      Kelly/Jinmei
                      sattoday

                      Comment

                      • Meian
                        Member
                        • Apr 2015
                        • 1720

                        #12
                        Gassho1

                        Thank you much for everyone's responses. I did not intend to vanish from the thread, it's just been that kind of week. I was reading off and on (but did not have time to answer). I tried shifting positions. It isn't heartburn but I appreciate the suggestion. I also tried changing my seating arrangement to see if it makes a difference.

                        I followed the links suggested as well. I am not familiar with Pitta at all - it is interesting, and I will give it some thought. I have heard of Tummo before, but never read about it until the link. Interesting ...... a few weeks ago, I was blessed to meet and have a brief (a few hours) retreat with a Tibetan Lama (wasn't just me, I was in a group). It was right after that when I made some small changes to my meditation practice and this "inner fire" or "inner heat" began in earnest, along with the consistent breathing practice I've been doing daily.

                        Lucy, your observations struck me (lightbulb moments) that this may not be Zen/zazen that I am practising, and at first this upset me a bit, but then I accepted it. I am learning, and practising, and apparently my practice may have taken more of a Tibetan turn. I think that's okay. It's all practise, learning, growing, in my opinion. Byokan, I see your point as well (shikantaza), and I wonder if the answers (or non-answers?) may be somewhere in the middle.

                        The description of Tummo is very close/similar to what I have been experiencing, though I am hesitant to say that it IS that, only that I recognise what the article is describing. Still, the advice and suggestions given here are all helpful, and my spine curvature is more thoracic, to the extent that if I try to lean too much against a hard surface, my spine can rub through my skin (has happened in the past, causes problems). So I need to be careful both of trying to sit too straight unsupported, and also what I lean against.

                        I have started adding a second meditation around midday (when possible) - I won't call it zazen because I'm not so sure at this point that it is. Actually, at this point, I'm quite certain that my meditations are not zazen anymore (I'm meditating with a purpose).

                        Thank you for all of the advice, perspectives and suggestions—I will continue to tweak, adjust, and learn from this, although I don't want to distract anyone with my change in practice

                        Gassho
                        Kim
                        鏡道 |​ Kyodo (Meian) | "Mirror of the Way"
                        visiting Unsui
                        Nothing I say is a teaching, it's just my own opinion.

                        Comment

                        • Jundo
                          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 40772

                          #13
                          Originally posted by allwhowander
                          I was blessed to meet and have a brief (a few hours) retreat with a Tibetan Lama (wasn't just me, I was in a group). It was right after that when I made some small changes to my meditation practice and this "inner fire" or "inner heat" began in earnest, along with the consistent breathing practice I've been doing daily.

                          ...

                          I have started adding a second meditation around midday (when possible) - I won't call it zazen because I'm not so sure at this point that it is. Actually, at this point, I'm quite certain that my meditations are not zazen anymore (I'm meditating with a purpose).
                          I am afraid, Kim, that here we Practice Shikantaza in this Sangha, and there is nothing to change or adjust in that. If you are sitting some other way, you will have to ask the Tibetan teacher what he or she advises.

                          We do ask that folks in this Sangha be sitting Shikantaza, in the way Practiced here, at least once per day absent life's preventing such some days.

                          When in the Karate school, one practices Karate in the manner of that school ... not Italian Cooking.

                          Gassho, Jundo

                          SatTodayLAH
                          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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