When starting out 'just sitting'

[Jay_cg14]

Hi sangha.

With my sitting I get confused alot. I know jundo talks about shikantaza as dropping resistance to what happens. Are we to be the observer of whatever arises then? Whilst staying focussed on the breath or body? Is it the practice of 'not minding what happens' even if it's being confused, restless, depressed ect ect. Is it mind observing itself effortlessly?

Gassho, Jay 🙏

[Jundo]

Hi Jay,

I would say yes, but a funny thing happens.

One sits with what is, allowing what is. If there is a table in the room, one sits with the table without thinking "good table, bad table, ugly table, beautiful table" ... and perhaps without even thinking "table" at all. Likewise, if one is momentarily feeling "confused, restless, depressed" in that instant as the passing theatre of the mind, constantly changing, one treats such like the table. It just is what is in that moment.

In doing so, as counter-intuitive as it may sound, the "confused, restless, depressed" loses much of its extra fuel of our resistance to being so, which is like gasoline on a fire. The flames grow smaller in our non-resistance. As well, a certain light and peace comes to shine through the confusion , restlessness and depression. It is hard to explain, but one might find a certain Clarity that shines through even being confused and as confusion, a Stability and Wholeness which is the foundation of even being restless, a certain Joy which holds both passing moments and happiness and passing sadness. Sometimes I have felt sadness and Joy at once! Clarity amid and as Confusion as one!

Give er a shot. I hope you have been looking at our "Always Beginners" videos too.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?121-A-SERIES-OF-TALKS-FOR-NEW-FOLKS-%28NEW%29

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Jay_cg14]

Thanks Jundo, great help! �� beginners videos are awesome!

Gassho, Jay.

[Kyonin]

Hello Jay,

When we begin sitting zazen lots of interesting things happen. Since we sit still the body begins to become super important. A tiny itch turns into the biggest nose itch in history. A small worry about the world turns into a Godzilla size worry. Confusion, anger, memories long forgotten... all seem to come together and fight to get your attention. Outside noises get overwhelming.

But the more we sit, the more we practice, the longer we can simply sit and watch thoughts go by. Like clouds in the sky, nothing less, nothing more.

We sit with whatever there is.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Shinshou]

I would like to echo Kyonin with my own experience. Looking back, when I first began sitting, I really do believe my mind began to throw mental fits...I would restlessly fantasize about all kinds of crass, gross, violent things, interspersed with beautiful serene thoughts and feelings. It was as if my mind were searching for the thought that would keep it alive. After a while of not assigning any meaning to them I guess that rebellious part of my mind gave up and they just faded away to the mundane, boring thoughts I have now, interspersed with moments of stillness. To me, the key was to realize that as I make soup, I don't look at the soup and think, "that soup is true, it's who I am, it is the meaning of me." It's just soup. As I make thoughts/feelings/emotions in zazen, the same can be true.

Dan
STLAH

[Jakuden]

After a while of not assigning any meaning to them I guess that rebellious part of my mind gave up and they just faded away to the mundane, boring thoughts I have now, interspersed with moments of stillness.

Wow you are lucky. My mind still has some serious tantrums sometimes! Mostly of the "I don't wanna do this, I have important stuff to be doing" type. And if they ever start to fade, I know Sesshin will bring them back, especially around the third day, ugh.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Tai Shi]

To say I know much would be an embarassment. For example, I am a poet, and not to bad at writing poetry. But, I cannot spell. Sure I know how to spell simple things, you know like articles, connective verbs, and yes I know a little grammar. But to spell Mississippi did I spell it right or wrong? Same with sitting zazen. Almost always really I'm more comfortable alone. Nobody is looking when I sit alone, and for the most part, no one cares. When I place the letters st/lah doese anyone care, or even look, and if I have successfully found "bliss," so did I spell that wrong or right? We at Treeleaf are on the honor system. If I look while in a group, and I have my eyes narrowed for session, is that okay? Does anyone look? Did I spell that okay? On the other hand, I'm sitting see, and I claim bliss, and I'm all alone. Who really cares? No, let us be honest! Isn't it just between me, the gate post, and the barn? Well, anyway, I'm never sure if I have found any kind of internal Nirvana, or is there a Nirvana, so what is zazen seeking? Is there inner peace? When I sit alone, no one cares but me, and I care. So it is in learning honesty because if I am dishonest, am I truly dishonest on everything I do? It comes down to this--bliss is honesty, and has nothing to do with peek-a-boo in a group. It must mean total self abjugation, total committment to inner being, and this means total honesty. I sit zazen better alone.

Tai Shi
st/lah
Gassho.

[Amelia]

I am really digging Jundo's table analogy...

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Byokan]

I am really digging Jundo's table analogy...

Gassho, sat today, lah

Me too! It really caught my eye as maybe the clearest, simplest explanation of shikantaza ever. I kept coming back to read it again and finally printed it out. It just gets to the heart of it in very few words. Nice.

One sits with what is, allowing what is. If there is a table in the room, one sits with the table without thinking "good table, bad table, ugly table, beautiful table" ... and perhaps without even thinking "table" at all. Likewise, if one is momentarily feeling "confused, restless, depressed" in that instant as the passing theatre of the mind, constantly changing, one treats such like the table. It just is what is in that moment.

In doing so, as counter-intuitive as it may sound, the "confused, restless, depressed" loses much of its extra fuel of our resistance to being so, which is like gasoline on a fire. The flames grow smaller in our non-resistance. As well, a certain light and peace comes to shine through the confusion , restlessness and depression. It is hard to explain, but one might find a certain Clarity that shines through even being confused and as confusion, a Stability and Wholeness which is the foundation of even being restless, a certain Joy which holds both passing moments and happiness and passing sadness. Sometimes I have felt sadness and Joy at once! Clarity amid and as Confusion as one!

Gassho
Byōkan
sat + lah

[Tai Shi]

How does the first precept differ from other introits, "Thou shalt not kill?" In point of fact, is it that we sanctify all life, and, in fact, all beings animate and inanimint--well here again concepts of Buddhism, and Judeo-Christian thought, and action, might be mared because I cannot spell, so let's dispence with that formality and just admit that Calm Poetry cannot spell--so it goes, that "Thou shalt not kill!" And one might revere all, life, non-life, and life and so on. So it was that last night I saw a tiny bug, insect creature, crawling under our bathroom rug, and being the "good Buddhist" I am, well I took my insect fellow, or tried to pick it up, he, or she, and I moved, or could I, well as the poet says, "shall I desturb the Universe, do I dare to eat a peach?" I good Buddhist as a Buddhist I am maimed the bug, and this hurt me and the bug. In Judeo-Christianity, we do not kill a human being. In Buddhism, I have desturbed the Universe, and with my rug in place, the creature might die anyway. The question to meditate upon is, "What do I do about the Universe?" Well in my sitting, is it that I clear my mind of all thought, or do I allow some thought like guilt to prevade my sitting, and how do I focus on getting rid of the First Precept so I can just get down to the bussiness of clearing out the cob webs and attaining bliss? I'll say that it might be better for me to contemplate just what this universe means, and how is all inter-related or as Thich Nhat Hanh might say--"Inter-Being." For me it is better to consider what I did with the Universe when I sit in meditation for all as a part of my harmony, and I think I'll consider just how my actions deal with my being, or conscience or guilt. I feel deep inside that it might be better to come to terms with the First Precept and understand how my anger, my insensitivity, affects my dad (or my wife, or my daughter), as my insensitivity affected the bug and as I have been bossy on my California trip to see him, my dad who I love, or and part of the universe and in sitting come to terms with really "how to make it better" and how compassion relates to love. Then I can do something for someone I love, and just clear away the cob webs so I can sit with clarity getting down to freedom. This approaches clarity.

Tai Shi
st/lah
Gassho

[Jundo]

How does the first precept differ fron other introits, "Thou shalt not kill?" In point of fact, is it that we sanctify all life, and, in fact, all beings animate and inanimint--well here again concepts of Buddhism, and Judeo-Christian thought, and action, might be mared because I cannot spell, so let's dispence with that formality and just admit that Calm Poetry cannot spell--so it goes, that "Thou shalt not kill!" And one might revere all, life, non-life, and life and so on. So it was that last night I saw a tiny bug, insect creature, crawling under our bathroom rug, and being the "good Buddhist" I am, well I took my insect fellow, or tried to pick it up, he, or she, and I moved, or could I, well as the poet says, "shall I desturb the Universe, do I dare to eat a peach?" I good Buddhist as a Buddhist I am maimed the bug, and this hurt me and the bug. In Judeo-Christianity, we do not kill a human being. In Buddhism, I have desturbed the Universe, and with my rug in place, the creature might die anyway. The question to meditate upon is, "What do I do about the Universe?" Well in my sitting, is it that I clear my mind of all thought, or do I allow some thought like guilt to prevade my sitting, and how do I focus on getting rid of the First Precept so I can just get down to the bussiness of clearing out the cob webs and attaining bliss? I'll say that it might be better for me to contemplate just what this universe means, and how is all inter-related or as Thich Nhat Hanh might say--"Inter-Being." For me it is better to consider what I did with the Universe when I sit in meditation for all as a part of my harmony, and I think I'll consider just how my actions deal with my being, or conscience or guilt. I feel deep inside that it might be better to come to terms with the First Precept and understand how my anger, my insensitivity, affects my dad (or my wife, or my daughter), as my insensitivity affected the bug and as I have been bossy on my California trip to see him, my dad who I love, or and part of the universe and in sitting come to terms with really "how to make it better" and how compassion relates to love. Then I can do something for someone I love, and just clear away the cob webs so I can sit with clarity getting down to freedom. This approaches clarity.

Tai Shi
st/lah
Gassho

Hi Taishi,

I like your word poems, but they may be a bit confusing to some new people asking a question who are not aware of your interesting and very personal writing style. It might be a little confusing to some people who do not know you like to write in such kind of poetry. Maybe sometimes you might try to write in a simpler way about some questions?

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Tai Shi]

Okay Jundo--here it is in a nut shell--Some things bother me because I hurt some people--The first Precept says don't hurt life. When I get mouthy with my dad, I'm hurting my dad and myself I feel like I'm hurting us, and life. To make things better, I apologize to my dad in a way that we both can accept. When my mind is clear of guilt because I hurt my dad, I can sit, and reach to some kind of bliss, whatever that is for each of us. Now Jundo I still like TS Eliot's, and Thich Nhat Hanh's commentaries better than my own--for referance--The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock, and Tamig the Tiger Within.

Tai Shi
st/lah
Gassho

And even at 5 AM USA Central Time, I'm helping an AA sponsoree!

[Tai Shi]

By the way for all of you, and all of you means all of our Zendo, every last one of you because I care, is that about 1500, and a little less than 300 active--July 22, 2017, I had 30 years continuous sober and clean time, and this is one of the greatest things that I have ever felt. In my own sitting practice, this changes nothing, for each day brings new sitting opportunities. I will say that staying sober has gotten easier because I sit! Dealing with my own life and emotions like pain are infinitely better because sitting has allowed me some clarity, and my attitude is better.

Tai Shi
st/lah
Gassho

AND Thank you, all of you, thank you.

[Jundo]

Thank you for clarifying, Taishi. I appreciate when you say things straight too.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Mp]

Some things bother me because I hurt some people--The first Precept says don't hurt life. When I get mouthy with my dad, I'm hurting my dad and myself I feel like I'm hurting us, and life. To make things better, I apologize to my dad in a way that we both can accept. When my mind is clear of guilt because I hurt my dad, I can sit, and reach to some kind of bliss, whatever that is for each of us.

Hello Tai Shi,

We are all human and we all make mistakes ... some small, some big. Regardless of what mistake(s) we make, what shows the most character, the most growth is when we can recognize our mistakes, be humble in our apology, to learn from those actions, and grow from them. When we can also come back together with the people we have hurt and they to us ... this is a wonderful thing. This to me shows one of the beauties of our practices in seeing and accepting life just as it is, but also doing our very best to make it a better place.

So I am happy that you and your Dad were able to see past the hurt and come back together. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH