Research on a "Differently Enabled Ancestors List" - Volunteers

[Seishin]

I can see this from various points of view. When I read the criteria for Plum Village re ordination/monastic training I was a bit shocked as it seemed to exclude many potential monastics. The age restriction particularly baffled me.
https://plumvillage.org/about/becoming-a-monastic/ - but on the other hand I can understand that the community relies on members being able to contribute on every level - including labour intensive physical work.
With the advent of internet groups and many other pathways to be of service to others it does feel very different in our current times and disability need not be a bar.
It would be really interesting to know how this worked in the past - I can imagine that monastics who became ill or disabled some time after their training would be supported but maybe doubtful that they could have chosen the path of ordination if they were already ill or disabled?

Gassho

Willow/Jinyo

ST

Willow

The age restriction baffles me as well. Since retiring at 55 and moving to France and buying a 1.5 acre plot I'm working harder now physically at 61 than at any other time of my life. I'm not looking for a monastic life but I'm sure and am grateful that I could contribute equally with someone half my age when it comes to manual labour. In MHO it is a state of mind and you can do whatever you put your focus into and as such you should not be discriminated against in that degree. Like I say just MHO but all year round I get daily samu and to be honest I love it and would be bored witless with a more sedentary life.

No fool like and old fool. Sat today.

[Eishuu]

I can see this from various points of view. When I read the criteria for Plum Village re ordination/monastic training I was a bit shocked as it seemed to exclude many potential monastics. The age restriction particularly baffled me.
https://plumvillage.org/about/becoming-a-monastic/ - but on the other hand I can understand that the community relies on members being able to contribute on every level - including labour intensive physical work.
With the advent of internet groups and many other pathways to be of service to others it does feel very different in our current times and disability need not be a bar.
It would be really interesting to know how this worked in the past - I can imagine that monastics who became ill or disabled some time after their training would be supported but maybe doubtful that they could have chosen the path of ordination if they were already ill or disabled?

Gassho

Willow/Jinyo

ST

I remember hearing about a story (probably from the sutras) where there is a monk in a monastery suffering terribly from something like dysentry and in a really bad state, and all the other monks are pretty much ignoring him and going about their business. The Buddha reprimands them and tells them to clean him up and look after him. I do wonder whether there is a natural aversion to illness and suffering that the Buddha was pointing out and making it clear that compassion is the appropriate response. Personally it rather baffles me that with such a huge emphasis on compassion in Buddhism people who are ill or disabled are still excluded and were ever excluded. I am very grateful that Treeleaf is such an inclusive place.

Gassho
Lucy
ST

[Jundo]

I remember hearing about a story (probably from the sutras) where there is a monk in a monastery suffering terribly from something like dysentry and in a really bad state, and all the other monks are pretty much ignoring him and going about their business. The Buddha reprimands them and tells them to clean him up and look after him. I do wonder whether there is a natural aversion to illness and suffering that the Buddha was pointing out and making it clear that compassion is the appropriate response. Personally it rather baffles me that with such a huge emphasis on compassion in Buddhism people who are ill or disabled are still excluded and were ever excluded. I am very grateful that Treeleaf is such an inclusive place.

Gassho
Lucy
ST

Thank you Lucy.

Kucchivikara-vatthu: The Monk with Dysentery

Now at that time a certain monk was sick with dysentery. He lay fouled in his own urine & excrement. Then the Blessed One, on an inspection tour of the lodgings with Ven. Ananda as his attendant, went to that monk's dwelling and, on arrival, saw the monk lying fouled in his own urine & excrement. On seeing him, he went to the monk and said, "What is your sickness, monk?"

"I have dysentery, O Blessed One."

"But do you have an attendant?"

"No, O Blessed One."

"Then why don't the monks attend to you?"

"I don't do anything for the monks, lord, which is why they don't attend to me."

Then the Blessed One addressed Ven. Ananda: "Go fetch some water, Ananda. We will wash this monk."

"As you say, lord," Ven. Ananda replied, and he fetched some water. The Blessed One sprinkled water on the monk, and Ven. Ananda washed him off. Then — with the Blessed One taking the monk by the head, and Ven. Ananda taking him by the feet — they lifted him up and placed him on a bed.

...

Then the Blessed One, from this cause, because of this event, had the monks assembled ... "Monks, you have no mother, you have no father, who might tend to you. If you don't tend to one another, who then will tend to you? Whoever would tend to me, should tend to the sick. ... A nurse endowed with five qualities is fit to tend to the sick: He is competent at mixing medicine; he knows what is amenable or unamenable to the patient's cure, taking away things that are unamenable and bringing things that are amenable; he is motivated by thoughts of good will, not by material gain; he does not get disgusted at cleaning up excrement, urine, saliva, or vomit; and he is competent at instructing, urging, rousing, & encouraging the sick person at the proper occasions with a talk on Dhamma. A nurse endowed with these five qualities is fit to tend to the sick.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...1-08.than.html

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[AlanLa]

This is great, Jundo! As a disabled person myself, I find it amazing all the barriers people like me face, and here is one I would never have thought of. I mean, what's more inclusive than Zen? But I guess that door closes at the monastery, hmm. Anyway, I don't have enough knowledge to contribute to this list, but I would love to see the results of it and learn more about those teachers.

[Kotei]

Reading and trying to learn about the ancient past and it's stories, I came across these two.
I don't know if they fit in here, but thought about this thread while reading.

Lakuntaka Bhaddiya, being growth-restricted (dwarfism), who was praised by the Buddha for his beautiful voice and power

from: https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/lakuntaka-bhaddiya

In the assembly of monks the Buddha ranked him as foremost among sweet voiced monks (A.i.25) (manjussaranam). Several stories connected with Bhaddiya are recorded in the books. Because of his shortness and his youthful appearance he was sometimes mistaken for a novice (DhA.iii.387). Elsewhere (S.ii.279; cp. Ud.vii.5) it is said that, because he was ugly and hunch backed, he was despised by his companions, and the Buddha had to proclaim to them his greatness and hold him up as an example of a man who, though small, was of great power.

and Khujjuttara with a hunchback. She was praised for her great learning.

from: https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/khujjuttara

Once, in the past, she was a serving woman of the king of Benares, and one day, having seen a Pacceka Buddha who was slightly hunch backed, she threw a blanket over her shoulder, and bending down to look like a hunchback, she imitated the Buddhas manner of walking. Therefore, in this present birth she herself was hunchbacked.

from https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/b...d/doc3682.html :

One day, Khujjuttara went to the garden to buy flowers for the queen, as she usually did, and while there, she heard the Buddha teaching the Dharma, and understanding it so well she became a Stream-Winner. On returning to the harem, she told the queen about the Dharma and delighted by what she heard, the queen thereafter sent her regularly to hear the Buddha so she could repeat what she heard. In this manner, Khujjuttara became an expert in Dharma, in fact, the Buddha called her the most deeply learned of all his female lay disciples. All the discourses in the Itivuttaka, one of the most important books in the Tipitaka, were preserved by Khujjuttara and taught by her to the monks.

Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

[Bearshirt Buddhist]

As the father of a disabled child, I'm glad to see this being addressed. Thank you.

Theo
ST

[Jundo]

Reading and trying to learn about the ancient past and it's stories, I came across these two.
I don't know if they fit in here, but thought about this thread while reading.

Lakuntaka Bhaddiya, being growth-restricted (dwarfism), who was praised by the Buddha for his beautiful voice and power

from: https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/lakuntaka-bhaddiya


and Khujjuttara with a hunchback. She was praised for her great learning.

from: https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/khujjuttara

from https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/b...d/doc3682.html :


Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

Thank you. I believe that this is precisely the kind of story that deserves recognition.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Jundo]

Dear All,

I have found what must be one of the most detailed and comprehensive lists of references to various physically challenged individuals in Buddhist literature.

https://www.independentliving.org/miles2014a

PDF Version

https://www.independentliving.org/files/buddhism-disability-bibliography-m-miles201311.pdf

I am wondering if any of our members with a historical bent would like to go through this document closely, and perhaps cut and paste for this thread (or make a WORD file) the descriptions of various possible candidates for inclusion on the Differently Enabled Ancestor's list? Many of the stories are not happy, not all positive. We would be looking both for folks who were unfairly discriminated against with a sad outcome, as well as those who succeeded in overcoming. We would be looking for the names of people, both historical and mythical, lay or ordained does not matter, who might be included as inspirations. They do not need to be "Zen" figures, but can be from other flavors of Buddhism. For example, it says on page 69 ...

MILLS, Douglas E. (1983) "gunko monogatari". In: Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan. 9
volumes. Tokyo: Kodansha.
The development of these stories of conflict and war, action and heroism, during the
Kamakura and Muromachi periods, and in particular the Heike monogatari, provided a
suitable poetic medium to be chanted by itinerant blind 'lute priests' (biwa hoshi) for "the
education and religious edification of the public at large". According to Mills, the performers
"made the tale not only one of stirring entertainment but also a deeply moving vehicle for
the Buddhist doctrine that all human activity is ephemeral and illusory."

We might include these "Biwa Hoshi" as a group on the list. Or on page 74, "Arya Chudapanthaka" ...

..., the ancient story is told of Arya Chudapanthaka .... As a baby he was placed in the care of a 'lazy girl', who made little effort to set him on the best road. So when Chudapanthaka tried to learn to read, by the time he had memorised half a word, the other half was beyond his grasp; and if he made efforts with that half, the first part would disappear from his memory. Several teachers failed to make any progress with this slow-learning or perhaps dyslexic lad. His older brother, Mahapanthaka, had become a monk and a scholar, and finally head of a monastery. He tried to do something for his weak-minded kid brother, but finally gave up: "you are the dullest of the dull - why did I ever ordain you?" he asked. Chudapanthaka was humiliated, and wept. Then the Buddha took his education in hand, finding first some simple tasks that Chudapanthaka could do, e.g. polishing the other monks' shoes. Next the Teacher devised 'Community-Based Rehabilitation', enlisting all those monks to repeat the same phrase that Chudapanthaka needed to memorise. Then our slow-learning hero learnt how to sweep out the temple, while meditating on the removal of dirt. After some time, it dawned on him that he should sweep out the dirt from his own heart and life, and thus he reached illumination. [The sequel was that Panthaka - as the Buddha called him - was sent to teach the nuns. Understandably, these worthy women believed they were being humiliated by having a feeble-minded sweeper sent to teach them. Some of them planned a practical joke to ridicule the new teacher, and invited a huge crowd. Yet by an exercise of faith, Panthaka turned their trick to his own advantage, then gave a detailed exposition of what he himself had learnt. Several thousand people responded positively to this message, according to the storyteller.]

We might include Arya Chudapanthaka on the list.

We need someone to go through, cut and paste the story highlights, with page numbers like that. Sometimes folks like the "biwa boshi" are mentioned various places, so that will need to be organized so all the information is together.

Please post here or PM me if you are interested. Yes, this could easily count as someone's "LAH" for quite awhile!

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Jundo]

Hi,

Not getting any volunteers here, so want to bump this ... see if I can twist anyone's arm. If not, I will go ahead myself. Anyone interested (especially among our longer time members)?

It would be good and helpful to the Sangha.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Kokuu]

Hi Jundo

I have too much going on to take this on wholesale but would definitely like to contribute to the research.

In my mind, as well as producing the list, we should elsewhere have a short paragraph about each of the Buddha ancestors and the nature of their practice and disability, as well as when they were born and died (if known).

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Jundo]

Hi Kokuu,

Thank you. I know how busy you are. I am hoping that one of our old time members with a little time on their hands will take it on, going through the PDF I posted, and drawing up a list of names with a short biography. I think everything is in that file, almost just to cut and paste.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Zenmei]

Hi Kokuu,

Thank you. I know how busy you are. I am hoping that one of our old time members with a little time on their hands will take it on, going through the PDF I posted, and drawing up a list of names with a short biography. I think everything is in that file, almost just to cut and paste.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

I'll give it a go. Not really an old time member, but I do have the brain of an old-timer

Gassho, Zenmei (sat/lah)

[Jundo]

I'll give it a go. Not really an old time member, but I do have the brain of an old-timer

Gassho, Zenmei (sat/lah)

That's lovely, Zenmai. And maybe you can get some folks to help you, divide up the work somehow.

I described the 168 page report I found, and what I think needs to be done, here:

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15510-Research-on-a-Differently-Enabled-Ancestors-List-Volunteers&p=208102&viewfull=1#post208102

That seems to be the most comprehensive report existing on the topic, with many names and descriptions of Buddhist Ancestors mentioned. See if it sounds like a plan.

Much Merit in this for you, Many bows.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Zenmei]

That seems to be the most comprehensive report existing on the topic, with many names and descriptions of Buddhist Ancestors mentioned. See if it sounds like a plan.

Much Merit in this for you, Many bows.

Sounds like a plan. If I need to, I'll reach out for help.

I'll just go ahead and dedicate that merit to all those who are practicing with these "obstacles". May they be serene through all their ills.

Gassho, Zenmei (sat/lah)

[MacK]

Hi Jundo and Zenmei

When Jundo originally posted this I was tempted to volunteer but was concerned about over-committing myself as I am just about to start my third year which involves a dissertation and two management placements. I would like to contribute and assist as long as I am able to be flexible and realistic with my time.

Zenmei - please feel free to contact me.

Gassho
Karen
Sat today