Split thread: Handling strong emotions

[Tai Shi]

So who is to be my Zen teacher? Makes sense to me.

Tai Shi
std
Gassho

[Jika]

I gave in to anger two days ago.

It's one of those family stories were people you used to love as a child still see the child within you - and criticise everything I am and do.
I went to visit relatives and it was really difficult to accept their usual remarks, which hurt me a lot.

As for anger building communities: Well, yes, it does.

These relatives share the opinion that I'm ugly, uninteresting, a disappointment and a disgrace to the family.
It is probably a good feeling to agree so much, at least when you are the in-group.
Same goes for racists, Islamists or neo-Nazis: Having your pals around is great.

I know these relatives have struggles of their own and held that in mind the last four years whenever we met.

Then I felt I could not take this any more and told them to leave me alone and mind their own business.
Well, I shouted at them. Whereupon they threw me out of the house.

They let me know they expect an apology.
But I'm not sure I want to apologize and what for.
They won't change their opinion and it seems to make them feel better to look down on me, tease me and insult me.

Could all of you who accept anger as a fleeting wave please share how you deal with this??
Their ongoing verbal abuse felt like someone hitting me with a stick again and again.
I tried to go smiling with this for 4 years.

Maybe there are a few of you with divorces, disapproving family?

There seem to be only perfect saints plus me.

I am aware I've written this here, but if people were to answer from their own experience, could we move this to the "all about life"-section, please?

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

[Eishuu]

Jika,

I don't know how skilful this is but this is what I might do and what I do do. If someone was treating me in a way I felt uncomfortable or angry about I might first tell them that I wasn't comfortable with the way they were speaking to me and could they please stop (if I was feeling particularly on the ball I might attempt a bit of non-violent communication (observation, feeling, need, request), and if they continued with it (or got worse) then I would just take myself out of the situation whether it was in person or on the phone. I would try and process the emotions away from them. I don't feel comfortable writing more about this unless it is in the 'all about life' section for privacy reasons.

I think that after 4 years of being belittled it's not surprising you snapped and tried to put an end to it. I think repressing anger and letting yourself be hit over and over isn't healthy. It's extremely difficult with relatives and very painful often. At some point I think you need to ask yourself whether you want to continue to have a relationship with them if this is the treatment you receive. Maybe some people can cope with this kind of treatment. I'm not one of them.

Much metta to you.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

ps it sounds like you are the 'scapegoat' of the family - the one everyone projects their negative stuff onto. It's a role they have put you in because it suits them and maybe it helps them deal with their own pain.

[Mp]

I gave in to anger two days ago.

It's one of those family stories were people you used to love as a child still see the child within you - and criticise everything I am and do.
I went to visit relatives and it was really difficult to accept their usual remarks, which hurt me a lot.

As for anger building communities: Well, yes, it does.

These relatives share the opinion that I'm ugly, uninteresting, a disappointment and a disgrace to the family.
It is probably a good feeling to agree so much, at least when you are the in-group.
Same goes for racists, Islamists or neo-Nazis: Having your pals around is great.

I know these relatives have struggles of their own and held that in mind the last four years whenever we met.

Then I felt I could not take this any more and told them to leave me alone and mind their own business.
Well, I shouted at them. Whereupon they threw me out of the house.

They let me know they expect an apology.
But I'm not sure I want to apologize and what for.
They won't change their opinion and it seems to make them feel better to look down on me, tease me and insult me.

Could all of you who accept anger as a fleeting wave please share how you deal with this??
Their ongoing verbal abuse felt like someone hitting me with a stick again and again.
I tried to go smiling with this for 4 years.

Maybe there are a few of you with divorces, disapproving family?

There seem to be only perfect saints plus me.

I am aware I've written this here, but if people were to answer from their own experience, could we move this to the "all about life"-section, please?

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

Hello Jika,

First off, I am sorry that you faced this experience, I too have been there so I understand how you feel. From what I have read it seems you were justified in being upset ... but were you angry? I don't know, that is for you to decide. But sometimes we need to express ourselves in an assertive or wrathful way in order to convey our message ... what is in your heart is the most important when doing so. A person's intention is shown through their actions, so if your intention is to let them know that is not ok to treat you that way and it comes out in a strong manner, that is fine and appropriate. That being said, we still need restraint and respect when letting folks know how they need to treat us ... we can't just open our mouths and let stuff fly. We can be assertive and strong in our actions with compassion and gentleness in our hearts. I know the words of others can hurt us, but always know that you know the truth, you know who you are ... If they cannot see that, then that is their lose.

Even if we have things that we would like to change about ourselves, you are perfect just the way you are. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

[Zenmei]

I gave in to anger two days ago.

It's one of those family stories were people you used to love as a child still see the child within you - and criticise everything I am and do.
I went to visit relatives and it was really difficult to accept their usual remarks, which hurt me a lot.

As for anger building communities: Well, yes, it does.

These relatives share the opinion that I'm ugly, uninteresting, a disappointment and a disgrace to the family.
It is probably a good feeling to agree so much, at least when you are the in-group.
Same goes for racists, Islamists or neo-Nazis: Having your pals around is great.

I know these relatives have struggles of their own and held that in mind the last four years whenever we met.

Then I felt I could not take this any more and told them to leave me alone and mind their own business.
Well, I shouted at them. Whereupon they threw me out of the house.

They let me know they expect an apology.
But I'm not sure I want to apologize and what for.
They won't change their opinion and it seems to make them feel better to look down on me, tease me and insult me.

Could all of you who accept anger as a fleeting wave please share how you deal with this??
Their ongoing verbal abuse felt like someone hitting me with a stick again and again.
I tried to go smiling with this for 4 years.

Maybe there are a few of you with divorces, disapproving family?

There seem to be only perfect saints plus me.

I am aware I've written this here, but if people were to answer from their own experience, could we move this to the "all about life"-section, please?

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

No saints here. I'm a recovering alcoholic, using a Buddhist recovery program. We deal with this on a daily basis. I've been on the other side of your situation. I gave my wife this treatment you describe for at least 10 years. It eventually escalated from mild disapproval to full on abuse. She's extremely angry, and I don't blame her. And it only gets more complicated from there. So you're definitely not the only one dealing with dysfunction.
It's absolutely vital that you don't repress your anger or try to pretend like everything's fine all the time. That's how people end up where I am.
Under no circumstances are you required by Buddhism or anything else to submit to abuse. Of that's what this is, then get out. You don't have to take it, but you don't have to lash out. Sometimes the wise action is to withdraw, to say "I can't listen to you anymore" and leave.
I don't know the specifics of your situation but it sounds like there's a good chance you have nothing to apologize for. Belittling someone and then acting like it's their fault is classic emotional abuse.

Gassho, Zenmei

[Joyo]

Dear Jika, it pains me to read your post as I too have experienced verbal abuse from so called "family" so I know how painful it is. There has already been a lot of good posts and advice here.

One thing I wanted to add is that, as hard as it is, you have to come to terms with the fact that these family members are not going to give you what you are looking for. I gave many years of my life, going back to these abusive people, over and over again, desperately wanting their acceptance and approval. It was a hard road to finally come to the realization that they never will!! They all think I'm a terrible person, they will see me at a store and turn their back towards me, see me when they drive by the street and give me dirty looks. My brother (my only sibling) has hardly talked to me for many years, he had a baby last year and I wasn't even told about it or included, I've never seen 2 out of the 3 kids he has.

There was a time that this behaviour made me suicidal. I had a breakdown several years ago, but thankfully decided to go for counseling when I realized how bad my mental health was. Interesting thing is, I went for counseling to change myself, because I thought I was a horrible piece of shit. As I worked with the counselor, she gradually helped me realize that these "family" members are being abusive. I learned to love myself.....still a journey but I've come a long way.

I don't share these things to sound like a victim, because I don't see myself as one. I share because hopefully my experience can help you with your own. You are not required to have family in your life, if they continue to treat you badly. For me, I have to stay away from certain family members because they are a trigger for me to sink deep down into bad depression.....so I stay away from them. They are not going to change, so I had to change myself and how to deal with them.

You deserve to be around people that will love you, appreciate you, and even point out your faults in a respecful way....we all deserve that. And honestly, you are better off being alone than having these kinds of people in your life. I spend a lot of time alone.....I see other people posting pictures on facebook with their kids enjoying their cousins, family picnics with relatives, etc. etc. etc. I don't have much of that in my life anymore, but you know what...I am happier. You can use that free time to become your own best friend and learn to love yourself, and I guarantee you will be happier.

I hope this helps. I hope you feel better, Jika.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today/lah

[Joyo]

Jika, one other thing I should add. My counselor told me something that was a huge help!! She said in dysfunctional families, they will often make a certain family member a target. It is easier to target someone and blame them and treat them poorly than for people to face their own dysfunction. So for these people that have treated you so poorly for 4 years, it may be an escape for them to not face their own drama and problems. But that is not an excuse and you definitely do not have to take that kind of abuse.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Enjaku]

Hi Jika,

Sorry to hear you're facing such challenging circumstances. No one deserves to be bullied. It's human to lose your temper and shout sometimes.

It might help to imagine it isn't you in this situation but someone you really care about, then think about how you would want to support that person. This is a good way to cultivate self-compassion.

In difficult circumstances like these, I find it helpful to remember that I don't need to find the answers right away. Be gentle towards yourself. Metta to you.

Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat LAH

[Amelia]

I am sad to read this today. I have no idea how it would feel to be treated this way by family, and I wish metta for all.

Gassho, sat today, lah

[aprapti]

hi Jika,

you've got lots of advice, so i just like to say that i wish you good luck and send you metta.
if you like to talk about this in german, send me a pb.


coos
std/lah

[Kyonin]

Hi Jika,

Every single day I talk to my parents I face their disappointment and sadness that I have never been what they have built up in their minds. They wish I was married to a beautiful and magazine cover woman. They wish I was a successful business man with lots of money, cars, properties and travels. They wish I could send them tons of money in return for what they invested in me.

Every day they compare me to the neighbor's son, to my successful cousins who seem to fulfill all my parents' fantasies. Everyday they are embarrassed of talking about me to others. My 24 hours job is to be the black sheep of the family.

Every day I call them and I can feel they want me to tell them I am no longer a Buddhist priest, that I am finally returning home to be their model son.

Instead, I'm just me. They are what they are, they say what they say.

It's clear to me that I don't own their minds. I can't change what they think or control their thoughts. They carry on their backs a huge boulder that binds them and suffer a lot for it.

And I don't quit on them. I call them every day because I know they care and love me in their primitive way. I call them because I am grateful to be here, for my education, for having the life tools to never give up.

I'm just me in the same way you are just you. We love you as you are even if you are thousands of kilometers away.

So just surf the waves of family. I'm sure they care about you in their own caveman and primitive way. They are bound by their own mental chains. Be there for them when they need you no matter what.

Now let anger go, breathe and sit with us

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Ugrok]

Hello guys and girls !

Was reading the dhammapada today, and there is a lot of stuff about control. "The sage controls his body, controls his thoughts, controls his emotions", says the Buddha, or something like that. Isn't it contradictory with what zen teachers advise, for example Suzuki roshi when he says that you have to let your thoughts roam freely without trying to control them, and the bigger space you give them, the better ?

Kind of puzzled by this question of controlling / not controlling. In my own practice, dropping all control seems to be the best way to handle strong emotions. Of course, it is not dropping all control, since i stay on my cushion, sitting straight up, and i'm not running around screaming. So i guess the answer is kind of zenny, like, dropping all control inside of total control.

Special metta to Jika,

Gassho,
Uggydoo,
Sat today,
LAH

[Jishin]

Hi Jika,

If a dog bites when you try to pet it, it's not a friendly dog. It's okay to bite back and save your sanity for the sake of all involved. IMG_0096.JPG

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Eishuu]

I've found with some people if I 'bite back' it either results in the abusive behaviour escalating or me inadvertantly providing more amunition for them to attack me with or bad mouth me to others. In general in these relationships it has not felt safe to bite back...and has in fact been qute dangerous.

In a healthy relationship I have been able to bite back and that often moves the situation on in a healthy and productive way. A healthy expression of angry feelings can bring more intimacy and trust with some people - maybe it's the level of genuineness and honesty and the fact you are risking exposing your real feelings and there is nothing hidden. By being genuine (without intent to hurt and without attacking, using 'I' statements) sometimes I think it gives other people permission to be really genuine too and go deeper with feelings.

It reminds me of the first verse of The Poison Tree by William Blake:

I was angry with my friend;
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe:
I told it not, my wrath did grow.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

[Jika]

Thank you all very much.

Special thanks to those who have shared about their own difficulties

Thank you for the dog, Jishin.
I'm not used to biting and they are not used to me biting back. Maybe we all should get dogs to learn from them.

That's a beautiful stanza, Lucy.

After talking to friends, I have decided to write a letter with "I statements" to my aunt.
The rest have expressed the wish never to see me again and that I'm dead to them, so no use there.

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday