Split thread: Handling strong emotions

[Zenmei]

JUNDO NOTE: SPLIT TOPIC FROM A PRIOR THREAD

Reading over some new comments in this thread I am struck by the strong emotions that arise both from vegetarians/vegans and meat eaters. Very much like when the subject surfaces in my daily life and conversations.
So now I wonder: how come we feel so stronly about this? Are our emotions, often with underlaying anger, justified? I must admit that I struggle with these emotions.
How do we handle strong emotions in Buddhism?
Maybe there's a talk or an article on this topic.

Gassho
Marcus
SatToday/LAH

This probably deserves its own topic, but I'll bite.

Emotions aren't justified, they just are. If I'm angry, it's not wrong to be angry. It may be wrong to punch someone in the face. Only our actions need to be justified. An emotion can't be wrong, any more than a leg could be wrong, or your hair growing. It's important not to think that as buddhists, we're not supposed to feel anger, so we suppress it and push it away. Repressing emotions leads to more suffering. When we feel a strong emotion, we have to lean in to it, to feel it completely and thoroughly, and then we can let it go. If we try to stuff it back down, we'll never be able to let go, it'll keep coming back up again and again.
Here in America, there's a sense that in order to really feel your emotions, you have to express them, to "get it out". I don't think that's true. If I'm angry, shouting at my wife only makes us both angrier. I can't pretend like I'm not mad, but I don't have to express my anger all over everyone. I still do, but I don't have to.
So the question is, how do we feel our emotions without letting them lead us into harmful behaviors? I haven't figured that one out yet. One answer is to just sit with your feelings, and it works when you can do it, but it's really not that practical in most emotional situations. Most situations demand a response of some kind. I'm not sure how to respond with compassion and kindness when I'm feeling fear and anger. Seems like not too many people have that figured out, either.

Gassho, Zenmei
#sat

[Mp]

This probably deserves its own topic, but I'll bite.

Emotions aren't justified, they just are. If I'm angry, it's not wrong to be angry. It may be wrong to punch someone in the face. Only our actions need to be justified. An emotion can't be wrong, any more than a leg could be wrong, or your hair growing. It's important not to think that as buddhists, we're not supposed to feel anger, so we suppress it and push it away. Repressing emotions leads to more suffering. When we feel a strong emotion, we have to lean in to it, to feel it completely and thoroughly, and then we can let it go. If we try to stuff it back down, we'll never be able to let go, it'll keep coming back up again and again.
Here in America, there's a sense that in order to really feel your emotions, you have to express them, to "get it out". I don't think that's true. If I'm angry, shouting at my wife only makes us both angrier. I can't pretend like I'm not mad, but I don't have to express my anger all over everyone. I still do, but I don't have to.
So the question is, how do we feel our emotions without letting them lead us into harmful behaviors? I haven't figured that one out yet. One answer is to just sit with your feelings, and it works when you can do it, but it's really not that practical in most emotional situations. Most situations demand a response of some kind. I'm not sure how to respond with compassion and kindness when I'm feeling fear and anger. Seems like not too many people have that figured out, either.

Gassho, Zenmei
#sat

Nicely said Zenmai, thank you. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

[Jakuden]

After practicing awhile, a strong emotion arising starts to be a little flag that means, "look deeper." It's amazing the truths you discover if you investigate all those little flags!

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Ryudo]

This probably deserves its own topic, but I'll bite.

Emotions aren't justified, they just are. If I'm angry, it's not wrong to be angry. It may be wrong to punch someone in the face. Only our actions need to be justified. An emotion can't be wrong, any more than a leg could be wrong, or your hair growing. It's important not to think that as buddhists, we're not supposed to feel anger, so we suppress it and push it away. Repressing emotions leads to more suffering. When we feel a strong emotion, we have to lean in to it, to feel it completely and thoroughly, and then we can let it go. If we try to stuff it back down, we'll never be able to let go, it'll keep coming back up again and again.
Here in America, there's a sense that in order to really feel your emotions, you have to express them, to "get it out". I don't think that's true. If I'm angry, shouting at my wife only makes us both angrier. I can't pretend like I'm not mad, but I don't have to express my anger all over everyone. I still do, but I don't have to.
So the question is, how do we feel our emotions without letting them lead us into harmful behaviors? I haven't figured that one out yet. One answer is to just sit with your feelings, and it works when you can do it, but it's really not that practical in most emotional situations. Most situations demand a response of some kind. I'm not sure how to respond with compassion and kindness when I'm feeling fear and anger. Seems like not too many people have that figured out, either.

Gassho, Zenmei
#sat

Thank you for your responce.
As I understand it, the anger should be accepted without further action except to sit with it. But as you say, it does not lead to a solution. Allow me to compare it with the US presidents politics that makes many people angry...
Maybe we should sit with the emotion of anger but never the less take a stand when unjustice is done and try our best to change things and make it better in every way we can?
So in this particular case... I will take a stand for the vegan lifestyle but I will love non-vegans equaly.

Thank you again and
Gassho
Marcus
SatToday/LAH

[Amelia]

Sitting with anger, yet also acting on what we find to be distasteful is usually the way it rolls around here, Marcus. I feel it is a good way to be, as well.

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Tairin]

After practicing awhile, a strong emotion arising starts to be a little flag that means, "look deeper." It's amazing the truths you discover if you investigate all those little flags!!

I agree with this. Often it is a question of pausing a moment or two and asking "what's really going on here?" We all carry baggage that manifests itself as emotions, aversions, attractions etc. The trick is putting down the baggage.

Gassho
Warren
Sat & LAH today

[Jundo]

Some wise responses from the folks.

My rule of thumb is (1) don't try to be a robot and never feel anger arise, for it is hard wired into the most primitive parts of our animal brains, nevertheless (2) avoid to let it explode into rage and burn out of control, and Buddhism has various Practices to cool and moderate the fires (3) certainly do not let anger come out of one's mouth or, worse, hands (4) learn to channel the emotion in positive ways, such as social concern and civil disobedience rather than angry words and fists and rocks and bullets.

A couple of old essays on the topic. First, Anger as "playing with fire". ...

I believe that the Precepts generally guide us away from anger, greed, jealousy and other such emotions. As anyone who has ever had a moment (or days on end) flooded by those emotions can testify ... they generally do not lead to the peace and balance which is at the heart of this practice. Others get hurt, we get hurt, holes get punched in walls, plates get broken and life gets broken. These emotions are fire, and we must be careful how we play with it.

On the other hand, to fully remove these emotions from the human mind ... including potentially harmful emotions such as anger ... would rob of us of an important part of being human. We would be reduced to living in a way as emotionally numb and dull as a piece of cold wood or a stone. Some schools of Buddhism (and some other Eastern and Western religions too) have sought to completely kill or squelch such emotions within us (sometimes many other human emotions too). This has traditionally been described as pouring water on the fire until coals become completely wet and cool, and the fire is completely out.

When Buddhism came to China, Korea, Tibet and Japan ... the Buddhist teachings on the emotions subtly changed (I paint with a broad brush, but I speak as a general trend). The fires of emotions were not seen as necessarily negative things, but they must be handled carefully and with balance. A campfire, so useful for cooking our supper if skillfully made, will quickly burn down the woods if left untended. A single candle which offers light can burn us and others, and the whole house down, if handled wrong. So it is with our emotions. Thus I say that the Precepts guide us away from excess and uncontrolled anger, greed, jealousy ... Anger at injustices in the world, for example, may spur us on to fight for change ... yet that anger should be kept in balance, and tempered with an equal dose of acceptance of life, lest it burns us to ashes too. ... Thus, do not extinguish life fires ... but handle them with care and use them in constructive ways!

More here:
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...ying-With-Fire

A related thread someone asked about is whether "anger is ever justified" ...

Anger is also a natural part of being human ... like sadness and fear ... and we should not be angry about sometimes getting a little angry (or sad about sometimes being sad, etc.). That's just how our animal brains are wired.

HOWEVER, unlike sadness (which is just part of the scenery of life, rainy days following sunny), or fear (which may even serve to keep us safe and out of harm's way if held in moderation) ... anger is truly fire & TNT, and has potential to do great harm. It is more likely to end up as a fight in a bar, a broken relationship or starting a war than it is to do any positive good. As well, there are other emotions and perspective which can accomplish the positive goods more effectively.

So, for example, calm reflection, looking for a constructive solution and keeping one's head as much as possible while taking effective action is an approach more likely to solve a problem in this world or in one's life than tossing more fuel on the fires of hate. ... Perhaps, "righteous indignation" or "tough love" (if a parent ... even the Zen Master's "30 blows" are more of this kind) or "a firm hand with a calm mind" may be justified by a situation ...

... but I would say that anger is rarely, if ever, an appropriate response.
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...l=1#post109416

I actually like that old corny Zen Kung Fu TV show as an example of, better than anger, "fighting the good fight" when hard pressed ...

Some folks think that BUDDHISTS ARE MERELY PUSHOVERS. Well, sometimes we are "pushovers" ... allowing events to just push us over without resistance, roll past us, all until we (hopefully) roll back up!

Other times ... like the Dalai Lama in his resistance to China, like the monks of Burma, like Gandhi (okay, not a 'Buddhist' really, but ya get the point), even like "Master Caine" in that old tv show ... we may need to push back, protest, resist, fight a good fight appropriate to the circumstances. Stilll, there is a way to do that, and not do that, and non-do that ... hopefully free of greed, anger and ignorance, free of all resistance even in the resistance. It might be against social injustice, it might be against an illness, it might be about something necessary and right in our own life that deserves standing up for (as well as sitting down on the Zafu for).

HOW WE FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...THE-GOOD-FIGHT

We have various practices in Buddhism that will help ... but one of the basics is more "old grandmother's advice" than "Buddha". That is to learn to just breathe through it, give it time ... especially give it time before you say something or act on it.

For longer term issues, our Kokuu is about to start a Tonglen circle here at Treeleaf, and it is a wonderful practice for taking in all the pain, anger and suffering of the world and sending out their opposites. (Look for that soon).

Also, nurturing seeds is a traditional practice, and Thich Nhat Hanh and many other teachers endorse such Practices ...

RECOMMENDED DAILY Nurturing Seeds PRACTICE

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6540-RECOMMENDED-DAILY-Nurturing-Seeds-PRACTICE

And, of course, not least of all, Shikantaza ... letting things be, letting the emotions go without grabbing on or stirring up ...

Also, not related to anger, but to the very similar (and sometimes very related) emotion of fear, it's positive side and need for balance, Shingen wrote a very wise Teaching here posted just yesterday ...

Fear: Friend or Foe?

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15433-Fear-Friend-or-Foe

I felt myself start to get very angry yesterday about something. Believe me, I know!

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Ryudo]

Thank you Jundo, thank you all.

Gassho
SatToday

[Jishin]

Split thread: Handling strong emotions

Anger is just unspent/unused psychic and physical energy. Get of it without causing harm and move on. Hit a punching bag, let it blow over with sitting, have a martini or whatever else works for you and then go back to giving people hugs and kisses. Just spend the energy. That's all.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Eishuu]

I agree with Jakuden, often strong emotions are the tip of the iceberg...for example, there have been times when I've been really angry and when I look deeper anger turns into anxiety, anxiety turns into powerlessness, and once I get to the root emotion and experience that fully, the thunderstorm passes. Been through this a lot dealing with disability. There can be lots of different emotions underneath anger; given the space they start to unfold and change.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

[aprapti]

i love the approach of Thich Nhat Hanh, he wrote a book "anger". If you can summarize a book in four words , it might be: giving attention, looking deeper.



Coos

std

[Tai Shi]

One who walks with peace has no regrets. For the first third of my life, I lived in anger and fear, and a lot of the time I has unhappy, disoriented, mystified. I thought others had all the answers. I was always afraid I might be found out. My life was untruthful. I was only beginning to wonder if there might be a different way. I was especially afraid of women thinking they all hated men. My father was not around, and my uncle was no help. At age 11 or 12, he told me if I got the "urge" to slam a window on it. I listened to dirty stories told by other boys, and then I found a "girlfriend," or should I say we found each other. We had no more idea of what to do with each other than any couple I saw at our high school. But they seemed to have it all together. My stories could go on, as Diazan, or Jundo would tell me. I found my wife, and through some terrible, and beautiful times we stayed together. Now Jundo calls her my best Zen teacher. When I relate some stupid behavior, Jundo just says, "I'd like to meet her someday." Yes, I love her, but it me, I still do not know what LOVE is. All I know is I would give my life for her, and she has already given her life for me. She knows my pain. Tai Shi, Gassho, std

[AlanLa]

For what it's worth, after I get angry I trace my it back to the source, who is either a buddha or me, or both, or neither, and then I get lost and let it go.

....not that there isn't some wrestling along the way as I sit with it.

[Enjaku]

Interesting thread. I agree with those who separate anger as an emotion from the person who is experiencing it. Anger is a threat-based emotion, like anxiety and disgust. It arises naturally when our threat-system is activated.

When we encounter someone who is anxious and withdrawn, we tend to respond with compassion. When the same person is angry or aggressive, our instinct is usually to keep our distance. From an evolutionary perspective, anger has served its purpose, protecting the angry person from harm with an intimidating display of aggression.

No one chooses to experience genuine anger. Like anxiety and disgust, anger is a natural response to feeling threatened or vulnerable. If we can recognise this, we may be able to respond to anger more helpfully, with greater patience and compassion, including our own anger.

Russell Kolts writes about compassion and anger. He also facilitates therapeutic groups with violent offenders in prison. I saw him speak once and he said, "next time you see an angry person, try to see someone who is suffering in that moment". This stayed with me.

As Jundo says, we all have seeds of anger. I want to water the seeds of compassion and wisdom in myself and others, including people consumed by anger. If we look closely, the most violent actions, or so called "unforgivable acts" are often perpetrated by those who are most in need of compassion and loving kindness.

Just my thoughts.

Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat LAH

[Ryudo]

Thank you all.
I learned a few things reading trough your posts.

I wrote a lot of text here that I deleted after reading it again because what I wanted to add comes down to this:
disappointment ≠ anger
(Hope it is not too criptic now...)

Gassho
Marcus
SatToday