Ordinary Mind and Buddha Mind

[Shinshou]

Hello all.

I'm wondering, what is the meaning you take from phrases like "ordinary mind is the Buddha mind?"

If my grasping, attached, disjointed mind is the Buddha mind, why am I practicing stillness?

Daniel
SatToday
LAH

[Zenmei]

Hello all.

I'm wondering, what is the meaning you take from phrases like "ordinary mind is the Buddha mind?"

If my grasping, attached, disjointed mind is the Buddha mind, why am I practicing stillness?

Daniel
SatToday
LAH

To me it means that if you're hoping to somehow acquire a better, non-grasping, non-attached mind, you're out of luck.
We practice with the mind we have, not the mind we think we want. We can't wake up by magically flying above this disappointing, confusing, frightening life, but only by working through it, one delusion at a time.

Gassho, Zenmei
#sat/lah

[Kokuu]

If my grasping, attached, disjointed mind is the Buddha mind, why am I practicing stillness?

Ha! Good question!

Is zazen any less zazen when your mind is grasping, attached and disjointed than when it is still?

We practice seeing life as it is in its complete wholeness rather than attaching Buddha mind to a specific state. You are not practicing stillness, you are practicing just being with what is. It is certainly easy to be with how things are when we are just sitting.

The idea of "ordinary mind is Buddha mind" is to get away from the idea that Buddha mind is only when the mind is still or filled with compassion.

That said, being able to see our grasping and attached mind before we say or do something potentially harmful is no bad thing!

Buddha mind is just doing the everyday tasks of life - making dinner, sweeping the steps, making sure the kids have a bath - rather than the more obviously spiritual activities such as sitting in meditation, chanting or reading sutras. There is nothing that is not Buddha mind, yet life is often easier when we drop away the extraneous thoughts and ideas that get in the way.

Those are my thoughts, anyway.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/LAH-

[Jakuden]

You are not practicing stillness, you are practicing just being with what is. It is certainly easy to be with how things are when we are just sitting.-

This sounds exactly right, I think for most of us it is most conducive to practice observing the mind in stillness. But as recently discussed in the "interruptions" thread, "stillness" is not necessarily still. It's full of input both from the external world (unless you are in a deprivation chamber somewhere) and from inside the mind and body itself. To be awake to this is practice.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Hoko]

Hello all.

I'm wondering, what is the meaning you take from phrases like "ordinary mind is the Buddha mind?"

If my grasping, attached, disjointed mind is the Buddha mind, why am I practicing stillness?

Daniel
SatToday
LAH

HI Daniel,

Just like Dōgen asked "if we are already enlightened then why bother with practice?" the answer is the same as to your question: practice is itself enlightenment. Buddha mind can only be entered via the ordinary mind and the universe can only realize itself through yourself. But at the same time there is no difference, no actual separation. Through the process of zazen (the "Dharma gate of joyful ease") one becomes familiar with the self which has no fixed beginning nor end, neither born nor dying. And it is only through the ordinary mind that we can awaken to the Buddha mind. So by practicing with the "grasping, attached, disjointed mind" you can realize stillness. And THAT'S why the Buddha said you were so darn lucky to be human. When you think about it that way you can actually appreciate and be grateful for the piping hot mess between your ears (and my ears and Dōgen's ears and Gotama's ears...).

Gassho,
Hōkō
#SatToday
LAH

[Getchi]

Hello all.

I'm wondering, what is the meaning you take from phrases like "ordinary mind is the Buddha mind?"

If my grasping, attached, disjointed mind is the Buddha mind, why am I practicing stillness?

Daniel
SatToday
LAH

If both are the same, you are now free to choose anything as practice.

Basically since I cant tell yet, im still Sitting. ANyway, what else will you do with your time?



GEoff

SAT/LAH

[Jundo]

Hi Dan,

There is an ordinary mind of birth and death, likes and dislikes, me and you and the other guy, past present future, table and chair, win and lose, fear and hope, America and Syria, Earth and Mars. friends and enemies and all other divisions, categories, names. It is a world where we run toward what we desire, run from what we detest or fear, get angry in our disappointment, feel sad in our loss. This is the mind by which most ordinary sentient beings live.

There is a Buddha Mind, a whole and pristine way, free of birth and death, complete beyond like or dislike, sweeping up and away me and you and all the rest, without borders, timeless beyond past present future, etc. etc. beyond all divisions, categories and names. In this peace, there is nothing to run from, no need for desire, no loss thus never fear nor anger nor disappointment. In Shikantaza and all Buddhist Practice, one can realize that one has been this mind all along.

But that is not all ... for one can see life one way and the other at once, as if opening the left eye and opening the right eye ... both together the clarity of a Buddhas Eye. This too is Buddha mind. One is precisely the other, and the other precisely the whole. Each perfumes the other ... each is precisely the other, yet not.

Thus, there is birth and death yet free of birth and death ... me and you yet no me and you ... timeless precisely as past present future ... named and nameless, divided and undivided, all at once as one. Thus, as we are sad at loss, one can also know that there was never any loss ... in the face of death, there is truly no passing ... only a Peace that is all human peace or war, holding all the sharp and round broken pieces of life.

Our excess desires, anger and (most importantly) divided thinking hide this from us.

Thus in each moment, one has the opportunity to lessen the desires, let go of anger and (most importantly) experience the hard borders of self and other and all things soften, perhaps fully drop away.

It is like clouds which cover the boundless, unbroken clarity of the open sky. Our Practice allows the clouds to clear so that clear sky can be realized. However, that is not the end of the story ...

... for we come to realize that sky and clouds are not two, always one and the other. We are precisely clouds and sky. The sky is precisely illuminating the clouds and bringing their form to light, while the clouds give form and movement and life to quiet sky, Do not forsake the clouds, for the clouds are the sky, even as one learns not to be lost and blinded by them.

The key of such seeing, experiencing, being ourself both sky and cloud is .... Zazen.

Understand? It is very simple.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Getchi]

Thank you jundo , that is beautifuln simple :-)


Gassho,
Geoff
Sattoday
Lah

[Mp]

Wonderful response Jundo, thank you for that. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

[aprapti]

thank you, Jundo.

gassho
aprapti
sattoday

[Jishin]

Polish the Brick into a Mirror:

Venerable master Nanyue Huairang, a great disciple of the Sixth Patriarch Huineng, asked Mazu Daoyi, "Why are you in meditation?" He replied, "Because I want to be a Buddha." Thereupon Huairang took a brick and polished it in front of Mazu's hermitage day after day.

Till one day, Mazu asked him, "Why are you polishing the brick?"

Huairang replied, "I am polishing it into a mirror."

Mazu asked, "How can you make a mirror by polishing a brick?"

Huairang said, "If I cannot make a mirror by polishing a brick, how can you become a Buddha by sitting in meditation?"

Mazu said, "Then what shall I do?"

Huairang asked, "When an ox-carriage stops moving, do you hit the carriage or the ox?" Mazu had no reply.

Huairang continued, "Are you practicing sitting in meditation, or practicing to sit like a Buddha? As to sitting in meditation, meditation is neither sitting nor lying. As to sitting like a Buddha, the Buddha has no fixed form. In the non-abiding Dharma, one should neither grasp nor reject. If you try to sit like a Buddha, you are just killing the Buddha. If you attach to the form of sitting, then you do not penetrate this principle."

No amount of sitting will make you (ordinary mind) into a Buddha (Buddha Mind). You already are a Buddha but you don't realize this without practice-enlightment (Shikantaza/Zazen/Silent Illumination).

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

And ... some footnotes ...

Footnote 1 -

There is a Buddha Mind, a whole and pristine way, free of birth and death ...

People often ask if this expression "Buddha Mind" necessarily means so grand Cosmic Consciousness, Godhead or the like.

Zen guys tend to duck (not bother with) this question. (Hard to explain why, but let us just say that a wave can realize that it is just the sea moving without needing to know all the details of the sea, such as how many fish it holds or exactly where it came from or how far it extends. We realize just "Who Am I", but toss the rest into "I Don't Know" and that is enough.).

The Emperor asked the great master Bodhidharma, “What is the number one principle of the holy teaching?”
Bodhidharma said, “Vast emptiness, nothing holy.”
“Who are you, standing in front of me?” asked the emperor.
“I don’t know,” said Bodhidharma.
The Emperor didn’t get it.

The "I don't know" is a very profound Big K Knowing, in which there is no little "I" to know!

I sometimes say ...

If the universe is conscious ... chop wood and carry water, sit Zazen and live gently. .
.
And if the universe is not conscious ... chop wood and carry water, sit Zazen and live gently.

But in fact, I have 100% proof the the universe is conscious, and I do not need to run any fancy experiment. You see, the universe is conscious because the universe has you ... has manifested you and you are a living expression of the universe ... and you are conscious (at least, I assume so. At least, I am). .When you see the tree in the garden with your own eyes, it is just star dust looking with wonder at star dust. Somehow, the whole of time and space would around to allow such fact.

As I sometimes point out, it means that "mind" is not simply something between your ears (in the sense that, in Buddhist terms, when "you" see a "tree outside" with your eyes and register an image of "tree" with your brain, Buddhists might consider the whole loop ... outside tree/eyes/inside experience of tree ... as "mind", not just the part inside the head. Add to that the sun in the sky, the wind, every atom that lets there be "trees" and "eyes" and "yous" in the first place ... and those are also thrown into "mind" too as all necessary prior parts of the whole process of being and seeing trees. )

All of that, the kitchen sink, the whole universe and whatever is beyond that led to you being here ... is you ... is "Buddha" and "Buddha Mind"

Footnote 2 -

Till one day, Mazu asked him, "Why are you polishing the brick?"

Huairang replied, "I am polishing it into a mirror."

Oh, good timing, this Koan is what I am going to talk about during this Saturday's Monthly Zazenkai ... stay tuned ...

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Suuko]

I think that this video is interesting considering the discussion we are having here.
It's all about perception.
Silence is just absence of noise. It's still noise.
Cold is absence of heat.
See beyond duality.

Gassho,
Geerish.
ST/Lah.

[Ryudo]

I think I learned something from this...
"I know nothing" is a wonderful paradox.

Thank you all.
Gassho
Marcus

SatToday / LAH