Get to know yourself

[niko]

Hi all, dear treelafers.

I would like to know how, through the practice of shikantaza, we learn to know ourselves. We do not have to follow or attach to our thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. How do we know how we function as a human being?

Sorry for my English. Are there any French speaking Treeleafers? It would be an aid to me.

Thank you very much, dear Sangha.

Gassho

Sattoday

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[Rich]

When you sit you see all your thoughts and feelings. Being aware of them allows them to come and go. To transform. Correct function is natural. It's like a tree knows what to do. When you are not thinking, not attached to anything, you respond to the situation of the present moment.

SAT today

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[Jakuden]

There was a recent Zen studies podcast on this (in English though, unfortunately) At this link is the podcast, but also a written transcription of the talk. Maybe you can have the page translated with your internet browser.

http://zenstudiespodcast.com/studytheself/

As Rich said, as we observe our thoughts coming and going through Shikantaza, we learn how our minds work. Eventually it becomes more and more apparent that our idea of a fixed self is just that--an idea. Then our actions in life naturally become more oriented toward benefitting others and the world around us.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Jishin]

Through the practice of Shikantaza:

IMG_0142.JPGIMG_0143.JPGIMG_0144.JPG

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Hello Niko,

For me Shikantaza allows me to see through/past my thoughts and be present with life in its wholeness, just as it is. It has help me see that I am not defined by just my thoughts or what I think, feel, smell, taste, or touch ... but rather how I experience all conditions in life. So through the sitting act of sitting, it has allow me to simple see myself just as I am. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

[Jundo]

Hi all, dear treelafers.

I would like to know how, through the practice of shikantaza, we learn to know ourselves. We do not have to follow or attach to our thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. How do we know how we function as a human being?

Your English is fine.

I say that we have all the normal thoughts, feelings and emotions (but hopefully avoiding as much as possible the harmful feelings and emotion, all in moderation, not a prisoner of harmful feelings and emotions).

We also learn a clarity and wholeness beyond all thoughts, feelings and emotions.

Then, we learn to experience all of the above at once.

It is like seeing the world one way out of the right eye (thoughts, feelings and emotions) and out of the left eye (clarity and wholeness beyond all thoughts feelings and emotions) ...

... and then learn to open both eyes at once, and see the world in focus, with the Wisdom and Compassion of Buddha Eye.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[niko]

Thank you Rich, Jakuden for sharing, very informative.

Thank you Jishin, for your illustrations. Sometimes images speak more than words.

Thank you Shingen and Jundo for sharing your experiences, it is a very valuable help.

This means that with time and practice self-knowledge reveals itself, we must just remain open and attentive to everything that reaches our consciousness. It is not necessary to analyze, to dissect each sensation, emotions or other, is it?

Gassho,

Nicolas
Sat today/lah

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[Jundo]

This means that with time and practice self-knowledge reveals itself, we must just remain open and attentive to everything that reaches our consciousness. It is not necessary to analyze, to dissect each sensation, emotions or other, is it?

Sometimes there are times to analyze and dissect why one is feeling a certain way in an attempt to realize the cause ... why am I am afraid today? why am I sad today?

Sometimes there are times not to analyze and dissect, and just let be ... when afraid, just be afraid ... when sad, just sad.

Sometimes there is a time to fix a problem and sometimes to let it be. If afraid of maybe someday being eaten by an imaginary tiger, let those thought go as just thoughts ... do not grab onto those thoughts, or let them imprison you, do not believe them ... it is your own creation.

If afraid of an actual tiger chasing you in the jungle, RUN!!!!!!! .... but (probably later, if you were able to run fast enough to get away ) learn to just sit and allow the situation, seeing through to the other perspective where there was no chasing "tiger" no chased "you" no hunger and nothing in need of chasing. (I sometimes offer like advice to combat veterans and victims of child abuse who carry scars from that. Recognize the scars and ugliness, but allow and see through as you can too).

We are also recommending the "Nurturing Seeds" Practice of recognizing (not during Shikantaza Zazen! after Zazen!) the seeds of harmful or negative thoughts/emotions and replacing them with other thoughts/emotions. This is a very traditional practice in Mahayana Buddhism (Thich Naht Hanh writes about it often ... possibly in French ... and I am reading a wonderful book right now by a friend of Treeleaf, Ben Connelly, that is also about this, and which I will review here very soon).

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6540-RECOMMENDED-DAILY-Nurturing-Seeds-PRACTICE

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Kyonin]

Hi Niko,

When we sit sometimes we can experience the flow of thoughts, plans and fantasies. They arise, try to take control and then fade away. Same happens with emotions. In my experience, there are also times when we can observe what lies beyond thought. Perhaps this is what the Masters say it's our true self. I don't really know.

And then we jump off the zafu and go about our lives, dealing with everyday stuff.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Ugrok]

Hi / salut !

I'm french and also sometimes struggling with those "know yourself" questions.

What i found out is quite paradoxical: the less you try to know yourself, the better. Just leave yourself completely alone, don't even try to know it.

As dogen says : to study the self is to forget the self.

Gassho,
Ugrok
Sat today

[Meian]

When we sit sometimes we can experience the flow of thoughts, plans and fantasies. They arise, try to take control and then fade away. Same happens with emotions. In my experience, there are also times when we can observe what lies beyond thought. Perhaps this is what the Masters say it's our true self. I don't really know.

For the last week or so, I've been unsure if i was sitting zazen since some particularly brutal migraines with odd and lingering side effects. After another (thankfully "milder") migraine that I just woke up from, I noticed something, and I'd like to share it, as it coincides with something Kyonin said here. I could never conceptualize it, but he did so beautifully.

Often during a migraine, especially debilitating ones, my mind will "drift" and it's like experiencing some surrealist fencer battle primordial beings or something. I'll have no idea what's going on, but I think the brain is cleaning itself out - flashes, surges, charges, half-conversations, images, zaps, all senses firing at once, with periods of absolute silence. Sleep? Eye of the storm? I don't know. It's all pain of the brain on fire. When the migraine passes, all returns to "normal" and I'm tired but functional again.

But - I bring this up because while this is happening, sometimes I will catch an insight to a trigger or a situation that is a problem, something i need to work on, let go, or handle differently - an odd lucid moment in the midst of debilitating pain. I wonder why my brain needs to set itself on fire to accomplish this task (or maybe it's like an outlet on overload? Too many plugs and it sparks everywhere?), but I do gain insights on various situations in my life and ways to change them when i am able to "shut down" for them.

For this reason, I wonder if my resting during migraines is actually also zazen, even if i "lose time" (and memory) doing it, only the chaos and fire of the event. The "lost time" and place beyond thought is what caught me about Kyonin's comment. I'd like to learn more about the True Self and what that is. I have a sense of it, but i don't. If it's not similar, that's OK also. It just caught my attention and seemed like i was taking a circuitous and more difficult route, as usual

I apologize if my comment is off topic. To me it feels relevant, but sometimes it is hard for me to know.

Gassho
Kim
St, lah

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[Jundo]

For this reason, I wonder if my resting during migraines is actually also zazen, even if i "lose time" (and memory) doing it, only the chaos and fire of the event. The "lost time" and place beyond thought is what caught me about Kyonin's comment. I'd like to learn more about the True Self and what that is. I have a sense of it, but i don't. If it's not similar, that's OK also. It just caught my attention and seemed like i was taking a circuitous and more difficult route, as usual

Any time one allows such as it happens and as yucky as it might sometimes be, flows with the chaos, simply witnesses the show, and sits at the center of the storm waiting for the seas to calm ... is certainly Shikantaza.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[niko]

Thank you very much Kyonin and Jundo for your clarification.

I understood that it was necessary to keep the same behavior, or state of mind throughout the day that during zazen. That's right?

Should we remain silent during the daytime, during our daily activities, and only speak when it is really necessary? Thank you dear Sangha for help and your presence.

Gassho

SatToday/LAH

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[Jundo]

Thank you very much Kyonin and Jundo for your clarification.

I understood that it was necessary to keep the same behavior, or state of mind throughout the day that during zazen. That's right?

Should we remain silent during the daytime, during our daily activities, and only speak when it is really necessary? Thank you dear Sangha for help and your presence.

Gassho

SatToday/LAH

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Oh, well, there is a time to speak, a time to sing, a time to yell "hooray", a time to cry, and a time to be silent. I would say to be your normal self, although please be quiet in the Zendo (or when the baby is sleeping ... as you do not want to wake a sleeping baby!)

I often say that an aspect of this practice is to learn to hear the Big "S" Silence that is present both in ordinary quiet and the loudest noise, whether in words or the space between words.

Shikantaza helps us learn to be this Silence. In Shikantaza, thoughts come like clouds, and we do not grab them or stir them up. We become like the open blue sky that is both between the thought clouds and which shines through the clouds too. Do you know that the sky of Silence is present even on the cloudiest, stormiest day when hidden and hard to see? The Silent sky is still there open and clear. Or, sometimes in our Zendo it is very quiet. Then a bird sings or a noisy military helicopter flies overhead and "disturbs" the quiet. However, in fact, we learn that "disturbed" is between our ears, and if we do not judge "disturbing" and react with disturbance, then there is no disturbance ... quiet, bird, helicopter all the same.

So, just be yourself during the day, but learn to bring the Silence and Quiet of the Zendo into your daily activities, even if you are these guys (some Tibetan monks during a Dharma Debate) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n47meDyom9E

I suggest that you sit Zazen, then get up for your normal activities. Yes, sometimes during the day you may wish to engage in some silent activities ... when washing the dishes or raking leaves, for example, just do that. If riding the bus, take a moment to engage in Shikantaza even standing in a crowded bus. Also, a few times a day, especially in a stressful moment, take some breaths and practice what we call "Insta-Zazen" in that moment ...

Sit-a-Long with Jundo: Zazen for Beginners (13)

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14883-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2813%29

That is enough.

There are time sometimes when we go for a long retreat. For example, I have been at some Zazen "Sesshin" for a week in a monastery where there was almost no talking (except by the Teacher) for a week. It was very nice. Not so easy. Good experience. But I do not recommend so for everyday.

Find the Silence in the greatest noise ... the Silence even when the baby is crying and the helicopter flying!

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[niko]

Thank you very much Jundo for your answers and your help.

Gassho

SatToday/LAH

Nicolas