Mindfulness and Shikantaza

[KellyRok]

Hi Taylor,

There's some really wonderful advice here, but I thought I would just add my own personal experience.

You asked,

How long would you say into the sit (on average) does your mind still enough to move away from the breath?

I'm sure this varies from one person to the next, but for me it can last 5 to 10 minutes. For me, I've found that I sometimes have to push through to the 8-10 minute mark for my mind to truly settle and the breathing to return to normal. Like Joyo mentioned, sometimes the mind will "pick up" with all the chatter and scattered thinking again and you just come back to the breath as a reminder. It's all part of the practice. Some days it doesn't take as long to "get in the groove" and truly sit, but other days it will seem to take forever. Just be there with whatever is there with you.

It's nice to meet you .

Gassho,
Kelly/Jinmei
sattoday/LAH

[tlsk]

Hi Taylor,

There's some really wonderful advice here, but I thought I would just add my own personal experience.

You asked,

I'm sure this varies from one person to the next, but for me it can last 5 to 10 minutes. For me, I've found that I sometimes have to push through to the 8-10 minute mark for my mind to truly settle and the breathing to return to normal. Like Joyo mentioned, sometimes the mind will "pick up" with all the chatter and scattered thinking again and you just come back to the breath as a reminder. It's all part of the practice. Some days it doesn't take as long to "get in the groove" and truly sit, but other days it will seem to take forever. Just be there with whatever is there with you.

It's nice to meet you .

Gassho,
Kelly/Jinmei
sattoday/LAH

Thanks, Kelly/Jinmei, it's nice to meet you, too! I appreciate the share. While I know it will vary largely from person to person, the primary reason I asked was to make sure I was likely sitting long enough at a time, and according to your summary, it seems that I likely am! So, thanks for the clarification!

Much appreciated!
Gassho,
Taylor
SatTodayLAH


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[Shinshou]

For me, a more apt metaphor would be tying your shoes in order to become a better pole vaulter. If they're untied (wandering, scattered, undone), you tie them first. If they're not, you don't. If you must tie them, you do it and forget about it. Afterward, there's not attachment to the tying, no concentration on tying. You move on.

[tlsk]

For me, a more apt metaphor would be tying your shoes in order to become a better pole vaulter. If they're untied (wandering, scattered, undone), you tie them first. If they're not, you don't. If you must tie them, you do it and forget about it. Afterward, there's not attachment to the tying, no concentration on tying. You move on.

Wow, that's some great perspective. I'll definitely put that to use. Thanks, Daniel!

Gassho,
Taylor
SatTodayLAH


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[Shinshou]

This quote is illuminating, Jundo. I know the brunt of it is about breath and Skikantaza, but it clears up so much misunderstanding about the nature of our existence. "But actually these discriminations are themselves the awareness of the universal existence...it is actually the true experience of life through Zen practice." I think this points to a commonly-held misguided belief (and by that I mean I believed this as well), that the world of separateness isn't real, or is less real, that the world of wholeness. How can it not be real? I experience it moment to moment. Of course it's real. But real, too, is the oneness of this world; harder to realize, "because we are usually so one-sided." As you say, it's like two eyes, one of separateness, one of wholeness. To close either eye doesn't give the full picture. "...we are purely independent of, and at the same time, dependent on everything."

Fascinating!