Back issues

[shikantazen]

Hello all,

This is Sam after a long while posting.

Around 18 months back, I came back from a nearby zendo after my saturday morning sitting and went to bathroom to brush my teeth. I bent over into the sink and suddenly got a severe pain in my lower back and couldn't stand back straight. I went back to my bed and tried to sit and I just couldn't sit. I seem to have hurt my tailbone pretty badly. The pain has reduced over time but even today I am not fully healed (it doesn't bother my daily activities though). I tried sitting once in a while only to see it can get worse again. Physiotherapy didn't help much either.

I feel I won't be fully feeling safe going back to zazen ever again. I am not a big fan of sitting in a chair but it seems to be the only option.

Your suggestions welcome. Also does anyone know about Taigu and what he is upto?

Gassho,
Sam

[Suuko]

Hello all,

This is Sam after a long while posting.

Around 18 months back, I came back from a nearby zendo after my saturday morning sitting and went to bathroom to brush my teeth. I bent over into the sink and suddenly got a severe pain in my lower back and couldn't stand back straight. I went back to my bed and tried to sit and I just couldn't sit. I seem to have hurt my tailbone pretty badly. The pain has reduced over time but even today I am not fully healed (it doesn't bother my daily activities though). I tried sitting once in a while only to see it can get worse again. Physiotherapy didn't help much either.

I feel I won't be fully feeling safe going back to zazen ever again. I am not a big fan of sitting in a chair but it seems to be the only option.

Your suggestions welcome. Also does anyone know about Taigu and what he is upto?

Gassho,
Sam

Hi Sam,

Did you try sitting on a rough pillow against the wall? I have a lower back problem too and every time I am physically tired, I start to feel it.

Gassho,
Geerish.

[Jundo]

Hi Sam,

First, it is unusual to hear about such back issues in someone so young. Does it manifest in any other activities, such as driving long distances? I would tell you doctor next time if it persists.

Also, if you are sitting with a Teacher and some experienced folks at the local group, let them check how you are sitting on the Zafu and your posture. Maybe you are sitting two far back from the center axis, or too rigidly.

In any case, one does not need to "sit" like so at all. I used to "sit" with a fellow who had been in a car accident, and stood the whole time. Please try a Seiza Bench, recline ... try many poses to find what is most comfortable for you. We have had many many threads on this, check out some recent ones (my advice is usually pretty much the same though) ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15250-Impossible-full-lotus&p=197828&viewfull=1#post197828

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15239-Seeking-advice-for-maintaining-a-practice-through-injury

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15226-Sitting-in-Seriza-HURTS%21

Taigu is doing well, and is working with a small group of students at our Sister Sangha, the Blue Mountain White Cloud Hermitage ...

http://www.bluemountainhermitage.org/

He is also very active on the French Soto Zen discussions (or, as they say "discussions Soto Zen French" ), although I have little idea what they are saying. Still, I know what Taigu is saying ...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/432884297073818/permalink/446393529056228/

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

PS - Sam, would you mind to replace your Avatar picture with one where we can see a human face that we can look in the eye a bit? It helps keep this place a little warmer and humaner. Thank you. Yes, I know that the Zafu is all our True Face!

[Eishuu]

Hi Sam, I am not able to sit upright for various health issues and mostly do Zazen lying down. From what I've heard, the Buddha meditated in various positions, you could do walking, standing, lying on your back or side... Maybe if you want to go to your local group, you could discusss it with the person in charge so they can accommodate you.

I also have damage in that area. It's a good sign that it is healing slowly...although it sounds like it needs more time. If there's nothing identifiable medically, then as long as you don't aggravate hopefully it will heal completely. These things can take a long time.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

[Hoko]

Hey Sam,

I hope you experience a full recovery from this injury and wish you much Metta. Jundo is spot on; one can "sit" in any position. As an orthodontist pushing 50 I frequently get a sore back from working all day. It's not really an injury per se but I have to watch my ergonomics all the same and many of my evening sits get truncated because I start to hurt or spasm about 15 minutes in. So I just stand in shashu as in kinhin. The point is, please don't abandon your practice because of this injury. Even if the only way you're comfortable is strapped to an inversion bench and flipped upside down THAT can be zazen too!

Again, I wish you a speedy recovery and welcome back.

Gassho,
Hōkō
#SatToday
LAH

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[Jishin]

Back issues

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Is it discomfort or pain? Hard to say sometimes. Always safer than sorry. If it does not feel right then don't do it. Then go talk to a specialist.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Suuko]

Hi Sam, I am not able to sit upright for various health issues and mostly do Zazen lying down. From what I've heard, the Buddha meditated in various positions, you could do walking, standing, lying on your back or side... Maybe if you want to go to your local group, you could discusss it with the person in charge so they can accommodate you.

I also have damage in that area. It's a good sign that it is healing slowly...although it sounds like it needs more time. If there's nothing identifiable medically, then as long as you don't aggravate hopefully it will heal completely. These things can take a long time.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

Greetings Lucy,

I understand that keeping the back straight was the most important thing if one can't sit cross legged. When I am in bed, I usually let go of all tensions and breathe profoundly like we do in Zazen. I'm not sure whether this is good or no- perhaps someone can comment on this. However, the sleep is more peaceful this way.

Gassho,
LAH,
Geerish.

[Suuko]

Hi Sam, I am not able to sit upright for various health issues and mostly do Zazen lying down. From what I've heard, the Buddha meditated in various positions, you could do walking, standing, lying on your back or side... Maybe if you want to go to your local group, you could discusss it with the person in charge so they can accommodate you.

I also have damage in that area. It's a good sign that it is healing slowly...although it sounds like it needs more time. If there's nothing identifiable medically, then as long as you don't aggravate hopefully it will heal completely. These things can take a long time.

Gassho
Lucy
sat today/LAH

Greetings Lucy,

I understand that keeping the back straight was the most important thing if one can't sit cross legged. When I am in bed, I usually let go of all tensions and breathe profoundly like we do in Zazen. I'm not sure whether this is good or no- perhaps someone can comment on this. However, the sleep is more peaceful this way.

Gassho,
LAH,
Geerish.

[Jundo]

Greetings Lucy,

I understand that keeping the back straight was the most important thing if one can't sit cross legged. When I am in bed, I usually let go of all tensions and breathe profoundly like we do in Zazen. I'm not sure whether this is good or no- perhaps someone can comment on this. However, the sleep is more peaceful this way.

Gassho,
LAH,
Geerish.

Hi Geerish,

I would say that it is important to keep the back balanced and comfortable, which means straight but not rigid or unusually tight.

As to the breath, we usually breath from the diaphram, but naturally and not trying to do anything unusual with the breath.

You will find all these topics covered in our "Always Beginners" video series ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?121-A-SERIES-OF-TALKS-FOR-NEW-FOLKS-%28NEW%29

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Joyo]

Hi Sam, I've had back problems most of my life (I'm not very old either, or so I like to tell myself ha) Anyways, it sounds like you perhaps had a back spasm? I've had many of these in my life and they cause excruciating pain. It takes time to heal such injuries, give yourself lots of time.

Find a way that works for you, in regards to sitting. I usually sit on my bed with a buckwheat pillow supporting my back. I try sitting on a zafu during Friday night zazenkais, but I usually can't make it through all of it, or even the first sit sometimes, without making some adjustments. Your body will tell you what works best.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today/lah

[tlsk]

Hey Sam,

My job requires a large amount of manual labor, and, as such, I've dealt with several episodes of tightness, re-aggravations, and full-on (brief) incapacitation. I don't believe I've ever dealt with anything seemingly as chronic as what you've described above, but I may have something that could be of some help:

http://www.apmhealth.com/education/healthy-living/stretching---strengthening-tips/6-stretches-to-help-back-pain

The link above provides several stretches that have been of help to me in the past, and I hope they can relieve some of your troubles.

Wishing you well,

Gassho

Taylor
SatToday

[Kyonin]

Hi Sam,

If pain is bad and doesn't go away please go see a doctor. Only a qualified professional can tell you what's going on.

Now, if pain is lowering, see your zafu. Is it too low or too high? Do you keep a soft inclination on it? Is your back straight or you hunch down while in zazen? In my case, I found out that a tall zafu was perfect, since I'm a tall guy. Try to experiment with angles and heights. It might help.

Gassho,
Kyonin
Sat/LAH