Of what use is the knowledge of the 4 stages of enlightenment?

[Kyousui]

Seems to me that it is interesting intellectual information only. How is it useful?

Sat today

[Jishin]

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Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

Seems to me that it is interesting intellectual information only. How is it useful?

Sat today

Hi Tom,

You mean the traditional stages in South Asian Buddhism of Stream Enterer (Sotapanna), Once-returner (Sakadagami), Non-returner (Anāgāmi), and fully enlightened Arahant? For example:

The first stage is that of Sotāpanna (Pali; Sanskrit: Srotāpanna), literally meaning "one who enters (āpadyate) the stream (sotas)," with the stream being the Noble Eightfold Path regarded as the highest Dharma. ... A stream-enterer is guaranteed enlightenment after no more than seven successive rebirths, and possibly in fewer. The stream-enterer can also be sure that he will not be reborn in any of the unhappy states or rebirths (an animal, a preta, or in hell). He can only be reborn as a human being, or in a heaven.

The second stage is that of the Sakadāgāmī (Sanskrit: Sakṛdāgāmin), literally meaning "one who once (sakṛt) comes (āgacchati)". The once-returner will return to the human world only one more time, and will attain Nirvana in that life.

The third stage is that of the Anāgāmī (Sanskrit: Anāgāmin), literally meaning "one who does not (an-) come (āgacchati)". The non-returner does not come back into human existence, or any lower world, after death. Instead, he is reborn in one of the worlds of the Rūpadhātu called the Śuddhāvāsa worlds, or "Pure Abodes", where he will attain Nirvāṇa; Pāli: Nibbana; ... An Anāgāmī has abandoned the five lower fetters that bind the mind to the cycle of rebirth. An Anāgāmī is thus partially enlightened, and on the way to perfect and complete Enlightenment.

The fourth stage is that of Arahant, a fully enlightened human being who has abandoned all fetters, and who upon decease (Sanskrit: Parinirvāṇa, Pāli: Parinibbāna) will not be reborn in any world, having wholly abandoned saṃsāra.

Much of the Mahayana (via the Bodhisattva ideal) and Zen pretty much leaped beyond and right through these, considering the enlightenment of the Arahant (Arhat) rather a different animal, if not a lesser path (thus "Hinayana", the lesser vehicle) compared to Zen's "supreme perfect enlightenment". In a nutshell, Zen enlightenment sweeps in all at once as once.

A section of Shobogenzo entitled Arahant touches on this. From the introduction by the translator, Prof. Weinstein:

As its title indicates, the text is a discussion of the arhat, or "worthy," one who has eliminated all his or her spiritual "defilements" (klesha) and achieved nirvana. In much Buddhist literature, the term arhat was used to refer to any fully realized Buddhist (and, indeed, was applied to the Buddha Shakyamuni himself); but, with the rise of the bodhisattva ideal [in the Mahayana], the word came to refer specifically to the goal of the Shravakayana, or "vehicle of the hearers," who were held to aspire only to nirvana and not to the anuttara samyak bodhi ("supreme, perfect enlightenment") of a buddha.

Dogen's discussion of the term dismisses the distinction between the arhat and the buddha. ... Expanding on the famous Lotus doctrine that all Buddhism is ultimately intended to guide bodhisattvas to buddhahood, Dogen argues that the true arhat is a fully enlightened buddha. Reiterating a theme found in much of his writing, he argues that true enlightenment is the spiritual practice of the Chan masters.

Dogen's way of phrasing is a little difficult, as is typical of Dogen, but he seems to say that enlightenment, the path and the "four stages" are all the same ...

Apart from anuttara samyak sambodhi, there is furthermore not even the slightest scintilla of an extra dharma. How much less will there be the four stages of progress and the four stages of fruition! At the very moment when the dharmas are borne by the arhat, these dharmas are not in fact eight ounces nor are they half a catty [a measure of volume]. "They are not the mind; they are not the buddha, they are not things"; even the eye of a buddha does not glimpse them. You should not argue about before or after 80,000 kalpas [long eras of time]. You should think hard about and master the power to gouge out the eyes. If there is an extra dharma, the entirety of the dharmas is extra.<9>

Shakyamuni Buddha said, "All these bhikshus and bhikshunis claim that they have already attained arhatship, that this is their final body, that they are in supreme nirvana, and so they did not aspire to and seek anuttara samyak sambodhi. You should know that all in this cohort are arrogant people. Why is this so? It could not be the case that there are bhikshus who have truly attained arhatship but do not believe this teaching.

This is to say that, when one believes in anuttara samyak sambodhi, it is proof that one is an arhat. Resolutely to believe in this teaching is to entrust this teaching; it is to transmit intact this teaching; it is to practice and verify this teaching. "To have truly attained arhatship" does not mean that "this is their final body, that they are in supreme nirvana," because they aspire to and seek anuttara samyak sambodhi. Seeking anuttara samyak sambodhi is "toying with the eyes"; it is "wall face" sitting; it is facing a wall and opening one's eyes. Although vast as the cosmos, it is "spirits appearing and demons disappearing"; although spanning all time, it is "mutual exchange and a meeting of minds." To be like this is called "aspiring to and seeking anuttara samyak sambodhi." For this reason, one aspires to and seeks arhatship; seeking arhatship is "having enough gruel and having enough rice."
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Footnote 9: "The four stages of progress and the four stages of fruition": I.e., the four stages of fruition and the practices leading to each.

"They are not the mind; they are not the buddha, they are not things": A well-known saying found in various Zen texts, ...

"Before or after 80,000 kalpas": A reference to the doctrine that one who has attained the first stage of fruition may, after 80,000 kalpas, convert to the Mahayana and attain buddhahood.
https://web.stanford.edu/group/scbs/...anslation.html

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Kyousui]

Not to worry

"Before or after 80,000 kalpas": A reference to the doctrine that one who has attained the first stage of fruition may, after 80,000 kalpas, convert to the Mahayana and attain buddhahood.
https://web.stanford.edu/group/scbs/...anslation.html

In other words, long after the end of the Universe in the Big Rip scenario

SatToday/LAH ( coming today (in the relative sense))

[Jundo]

In other words, long after the end of the Universe in the Big Rip scenario

Or last Tuesday, whichever comes first.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH