Zen, Buddhism and "Just War"

[Chikyou]

Thank you, Jundo, for speaking out so clearly in opposition to these wars. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

While I respect the just war theory quoted above, there is another Catholic doctrine that feels even closer to Zen ways of thinking and that I wish I was hearing more in the news these days. According to Catholics, there is a natural light (they call it 'synderesis') in each person that enables the person to spot evil immediately, without words or theories. There is also a natural skill, 'conscience', that allows the person to apply the findings of synderesis to more complex cases immediately, again without words or theories. So synderesis tells us, for example, that killing an innocent person is wrong in general. Conscience tells us that killing this-or-that innocent person is wrong in this particular case.

So here is what I would love to hear the Pope and everyone else say: We can all see immediately by the natural light that is in every human being that the war in Iran is wrong, because the natural light tells us immediately that it is wrong to: fight a war with no clear purpose; take the lives of 175 girls by bombing their school; threaten to end an entire civilization; cause fear in an entire population through erratic words and actions and threats; celebrate killing on social media and in media interviews; spend billions and billions of dollars on destruction that could be used to feed the starving, house the unhoused, heal the sick, educate the young; and on and on and on and on.

We need to all stand together and stand up for what is obvious and not make it sound too complicated with theories and arguments. I write this literally in tears for all the suffering that is being caused needlessly.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Mike

This is how I feel. Even if there are justifiable reasons to go to war with Iran (which I don’t know enough about the situation to speak to so I won’t) - the way this war was started and is being carried out is abhorrent. I am thoroughly disillusioned with America right now.

If war is truly inevitable, and must be carried out, the only way to do so with any sort of justice is to do it with extreme care and thoughtful consideration. Which, considering that Congress was left out of the decision entirely, didn’t even happen to US legal standards.

I agree wholeheartedly with the Catholics on this one. I also agree with you - it seems that there’s always money in the treasury for war, no matter the cost, even while we’re met with a chorus of “we can’t afford it!” when the topic of feeding the hungry, healthcare for all or ending homelessness comes up. It’s clear that we very much CAN afford it, but choices are being made.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[Choboku]

This conflict has been bothering me. Having been to war, I hate it and think it is absolutely unnecessary. Especially when it seems (to me, at least) that the US is just going out and looking for a fight. I think that there are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes, that many of us will never see, that make things even worse. I've been trying to sit with this resentment and anger, but it really takes up a lot of space on the cushion.

It is my hope that enough people see the foolishness of this so that it stops quickly. May whatever power exists in the universe put a boot in all of our rears.

Sat today, LAH
Choboku

[Jundo]

For anyone wondering, I just moved the discussion on war, violence and medicine with Seido and others over to its own thread ...

https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/treeleaf/the-buddhism-of-the-future-forum-building-the-future-buddha/569074-future-violence-and-war-as-disease?p=569136#post569136

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Hoshuku]

On reflection, Buddhism and Christianity share a similar issue with ethics. Neither developed with the expectation of providing the ethical standards for societies in general. Christians were a persecuted minority that expected the imminent return of their Lord and Saviour, so had no need to think about more than preparing themselves for that. Buddhist ethics were for a minority monastic elite withdrawn from society. As their respective influence grew until they culturally dominated whole countries, they then had to work out acceptable compromises. The Just War theory is one such compromise.

Bows
Hoshuku
Satlah

[Hoshuku]

I’ve gone down a further rabbit hole and dug around a bit for the Sanskrit terms…..please correct anything misleading Jundo. Apparently there were a few words for war in Sanskrit, including one that sounds like a Just War. I especially like the term for war that translates as the desire for more cows, greed par excellence.

The main word is Yuddha, meaning battle, fight, or conflict. Also, there is Gavisti, which literally translates to "desire for cows" or "desire for more cows”. And lastly, Dharmayuddha, which is for righteousness, honor, or duty, rather than mere material gain.

Bows
Hoshuku
Satlah

[RedLane]

I am a little shy to join the discussion, but here I am. I am a relatively quiet member of this Sangha, but I embrace you all and want to do my part.

I think that we can intellectualize and even appreciate “just” reasons to go to war. In defence of ourselves, our country, our loved ones, our religious beliefs, our way of life, and the list goes on. Our species has always warred. Our closest evolutionary cousin, the chimpanzee, has always warred. Our civilizations have risen and fallen based on matters both great and small over the long course of history, and ultimately, it all seems arbitrary. When we intellectualize the subject, it feels inevitable, but it really isn’t. Whether a war is “just” or not, the participants, right down from instigators, to decision makers trying to defend all of the above, to the soldiers who kill and die in the fighting, must accept their karmic outcome.

It hasn’t been perfect, and there were still certainly “winners” and “losers”, but the post-war world order and the Pax Americana we’ve all had the privilege of living through has demonstrated what is possible when we turn our backs on our natural inclinations towards war. If we work together towards the collective good, we can truly achieve anything.

If clean water generators are present on every ocean-going vessel on the seas, and desalination plants in Southern California can provide clean drinking water not only to their own regions, but regions further afield, then surely with a conscientious use of resources, we can provide clean drinking water to every being on this Earth.

Water is the key to agriculture, and with advancements in hydroponic and aquaponic farming, as well as our capacity for infrastructure, we could create entire agri-cities devoted to growing fruits, vegetables and grains, and spawning fish in closed loop environments which could feed the world with minimal ecological impacts.

We are long overdue to reevaluate our systems of governance, to reinforce what works to establish corruption resistant bodies which serve the society and global good; while reevaluating and changing those systems which don’t (here’s lookin’ at you late-stage capitalism). There is no reason why every person on this Earth cannot be provided food, clean water, clothes, shelter, and an education, enough that they can lead a dignified life.

It requires mass appeal and political will to make impacts of significance, but it all starts with doing our best to serve the downtrodden, and to educate rather than judge the misguided. I am grateful for the fortitude our practice grants us in this regard, it’s not easy work, but it’s something we can all work towards.

When I sit on the cushion, and these sorts of thoughts inevitably drift past me, it feels obvious that we are capable of doing and being so much more. It is in those quiet moments following zazen, when I clean my dishes and tidy up before bed, that I feel the most quiet and at peace.

Gassho ,

Red

Sat, LAH

[Shui_Di]

Hi everyone,

This is also the same debate here in my country about abortion. Some say, a fetus is already a being that shouldn't be killed. But sometimes, some condition is needed for abortion. So, there is grey area here.

I agree with Jundo when he said about necessary evil.

Gassho, Mujo
Stlah.