Master Dogen's Tendai background

[alecs]

Hey folks!
When reading the texts of the old Chinese masters, I find them stylistically very different from Master Dogen's writings. It seems to me that while Dogen's essays and writings are "canonical" in content (not 100%, of course he's explaining the Dharma in his own beautiful way), the style tends to be much more philosophically dense.
So that made me wonder... how much of Dogen's style is influenced by his Tendai background? I know for sure that he held the Lotus sutra in high regard

I didn't find any specific post about this but I could be mistaken, so feel free to redirect me to older posts. Forgive me for my broken english

Gassho,
Alex

sat/LaH

[Jundo]

Hey folks!
When reading the texts of the old Chinese masters, I find them stylistically very different from Master Dogen's writings. It seems to me that while Dogen's essays and writings are "canonical" in content (not 100%, of course he's explaining the Dharma in his own beautiful way), the style tends to be much more philosophically dense.
So that made me wonder... how much of Dogen's style is influenced by his Tendai background? I know for sure that he held the Lotus sutra in high regard

I didn't find any specific post about this but I could be mistaken, so feel free to redirect me to older posts. Forgive me for my broken english

Gassho,
Alex

sat/LaH

Hi Alex,

Master Dogen actually engaged in many teaching styles, some more experimental in his own voice, some very traditional in the style of Chinese Zen talks. The latter are found in much of the collection known as Eihei Koroku (Dogen's Extensive Record: https://wisdomexperience.org/product...ensive-record/ ).

The Shobogenzo I have compared to his trying a Jazzy style that is grounded in the traditional Chinese style, but then takes off riffing and word playing. I write about that here (LINK) and in my book, Zen Master's Dance (LINK). I might not say "philosophically dense" as much as musically and expressively creative. Dogen's teaching were pretty standard Mahayana Buddhism, but with his own twist now and then.

Dogen was educated in Tendai as a young man. Many of his teachings play off and "riff" on Tendai teachings, but in a very Zen way. You can read more here.

https://www.ancientdragon.org/2019/02/19/the-lotus-sutra-as-a-source-for-dogens-discourse-style/

and

https://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/en/search/search_detail.jsp?seq=146752

Also in Taigen's book ...

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/visions-of-awakening-space-and-time-9780195383379

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[alecs]

Wow... I didn't even consider the Eihei Koroku... looks like I've got a lot to learn
Jundo Thank you very much for your helpful answer!!

Gassho,
Alex

sat/LaH

[Ryumon]

Re the Eihei Koroku, are these just records of notes made by students, or did Dogen write them up based on notes? If it's the former, it's obvious that the style would be different from his carefully thought-out writing style.

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

[Jundo]

Re the Eihei Koroku, are these just records of notes made by students, or did Dogen write them up based on notes? If it's the former, it's obvious that the style would be different from his carefully thought-out writing style.

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

I assume that they were notes made during the lecture by Dogen's "secretary" (monks like Ejo and Gikai) who were "in the room," but definitely polished up and (certainly) were checked by Dogen in the editing process. The content of the lectures is definitely in a more traditional, classic Zen style than Shobogenzo, including with the drama. For example (notice the 3rd person description by the secretary of Dogen's actions too) ...

~~~


2-163. Dharma Hall Discourse
An ancient person [Guizong Zhichang] said, “When the eyes are clouded over, flowers in the sky flutter down.”

Dogen held up his whisk and said: Isn’t this a cloud over the eyes? A hundred thousand buddhas all dwell at the tip of this whisk, manifest a sixteen foot, purple and golden body, ride around all the lands in the ten directions, and expound all dharmas, saving all beings. Isn’t this flowers in the sky fluttering down? All ancestral teachers travel to [the land of] Liang and visit [the land of] Wei [like Bodhidharma], transmitting the robe and entrusting the Dharma. Isn’t this flowers in the sky fluttering down?

Now if there is someone who arrived before I held up this whisk and who can tumble freely, please come forward and meet with me. If you are not [such a person], you should never reach the place where the eyes are not clouded over, and where there are no flowers in the sky. Then Dogen threw down the whisk to the foot of his sitting platform and said: Nevertheless, [as stated by Zhaozhou] you cannot avoid the fact that this year salt is expensive and rice is cheap.

~~~

Gassho, J
stlah