Is this Shikantaza style wrong?

[Patrick Fain]

I's it ok to stare at a spot directly in front on the wall. When I do this my thought's become easier to control. What I mean is the practice of noticing thoughts but not interacting with them. Which the latter part of that sentence is recommended by a Japanese teacher on YouTube. I can't remember his name right now but I'm sure most Soto practitioners know of him.


Sat/Lah

[Jundo]

I's it ok to stare at a spot directly in front on the wall. When I do this my thought's become easier to control. What I mean is the practice of noticing thoughts but not interacting with them. Which the latter part of that sentence is recommended by a Japanese teacher on YouTube. I can't remember his name right now but I'm sure most Soto practitioners know of him.


Sat/Lah

Hmmm. We do traditionally sit Zazen facing a bare wall, eyes partially open, as a way to reduce (but not totally eliminate) sensory stimulation. Generally, we do not fixate on any one part or spot on the wall, but let the eyes just see, relaxed, without thinking about what we are seeing. However, I do not feel that there is a problem with centering on one particular spot on the wall if it feels like it helps you calm and center, and if you do so in an alert but relaxed manner, awake but without tension. In other words, it should feel calm and easy to just rest your vision there. If you vision start to strain because you are trying too hard to hold to that one spot, then I would let my vision naturally drift to some other spot.

Also, no need to "notice" the thoughts. The important aspect is to let them be, not interacting with them.

Try it, and if it feels right, easy, helps you sit alert, with the mind calm and not interacting so much with thoughts, then it seems like it would be a good method for you.

Don't forget to also sit with radical equanimity, knowing with faith and confidence lightly held in the bones, that this sitting is a complete sitting, the only place and thing to do in this time of sitting, all the Buddhas and Ancestors sitting in our sitting.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

PS - Some folks sit facing into the room but, even then, we do not engage with, judge or become entangled with what is before our eyes.

[Patrick Fain]

Thanks for the advice Jundo.

Good day/night

Patrick Fain

[FNJ]

The staring at a point on a wall sounds a little bit like the method of using a kasina disc.

When using a Thangka to meditate, one generally does look in the center of it, but the eye tends to wander around it gently allowing our attention to be pulled by different elements.

When staring right into a wall like in Soto, I have noticed myself staring very much through the wall but I stopped doing that because it was making me cross-eyed and giving me double vision afterwards. So I am also one of these who find focusing on a point at a slight distance helpful.

Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

[Jundo]

The staring at a point on a wall sounds a little bit like the method of using a kasina disc.

When using a Thangka to meditate, one generally does look in the center of it, but the eye tends to wander around it gently allowing our attention to be pulled by different elements.

When staring right into a wall like in Soto, I have noticed myself staring very much through the wall but I stopped doing that because it was making me cross-eyed and giving me double vision afterwards. So I am also one of these who find focusing on a point at a slight distance helpful.

Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

Oh no. We are not absorbed in any image like a kasina disc, and this is not a concentration exercise.

Ours is just a light place to place the attention lightly, whether the breath, posture, the palm of the hands in Mudra or a place on the wall lightly. I encourage open, spacious awareness which is more "unanchored."

Our vision should be most natural, like driving a car down a country road. I wrote this awhile back on the eyes in Shikantaza. It talks about looking into the room, but it is the same with spots on the wall. What a room looks like before Zazen ...

hq720.jpg

What the room looks like during Zazen (but just not thinking particularly thoughts like "ugly sofa, nice chair, wish I were outside, need to clean this dirty floor ... "

hq720.jpg

I wrote these instructions awhile back on "Open Spacious Awareness" ...

Drivin' Dogen - Understanding "Open Spacious Awareness"

https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/teacher-talks-tips/teacher-talks-tips-aa/vital-points-of-shikantaza-zazen/11418-drivin-dogen-understanding-open-spacious-awareness

Gassho, J
stlah

[Bion]

Yeah the way I have been "shikantazaing" is probably a compromise at this point between my usual practice of shamatha which I usually start by picking a point and then I notice that my field of awareness increases from that point so while my eyes are locked on that point, my awareness is open and spacious. Inevitably my gaze drifts when I get carried away by a thought then I usually bring it back to that point. For me it's kind of like a balance between the two extremes.



Sat LAH
Gassho
Niall

My usual description is that of defocusing the eyes... Rather than full clarity of wall and patterns on it, it's sort of like looking at some non-existing thing that is in between eyes and wall. Maybe that's just a me thing, though

Gassho
sat lah

[Patrick Fain]

I may start by staring at the wall at a point until I focus my mind, then blur my vision a bit or soften gaze.

Good day/night

[Jundo]

I may start by staring at the wall at a point until I focus my mind, then blur my vision a bit or soften gaze.

Good day/night

Oh, try not trying. Give up all trying. Just Sit, in total equanimity, knowing that this sitting is a whole and complete sitting just by sitting, a sacred sitting, the only place to be and thing to do in the whole universe while sitting.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Seiko]

I have a difficult visual impairment.
Never really visually in focus.
Good zazen eyes.

When that spot on the wall moves.
And I realize it's a spider.

Gasshō, Seiko, stlah

[Steve Rossiter]

Great question. Thanks for asking. Gassho stlah

[Dainei]

There is always the "middle way" between being laser focused on a point or blemish and zoning out entirely . Keep sitting, you'll find your way .

Gassho,
Dainei