A Heart Sutra Bouquet

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  • Onsho
    Member
    • Aug 2022
    • 198

    A Heart Sutra Bouquet

    Edit: There have been four translation updates since the original post

    Hello folks!

    For a while I have wanted to grab a handful of Heart Sutra translations and lay them out to make comparing them easier. They don’t match perfectly line for line, but it should be easy enough to dig into regardless. If there is another version that anyone knows that isn't overly complicated, I would be happy to edit and update to add it in with the others.
    I can send a pdf if anyone would like a copy as well
    Enjoy!


    Gassho,
    Onsho
    satlah


    TL= Treeleaf
    RP= Red Pine
    TNH=Thich Nhat Hahn
    KTJH= Kazuaki Tanahashi and Roshi Joan Halifax
    JK= Jiyu-Kennet and Hubert Nearman
    KU= Kwan Um

    AO= Abbot Obora


    Heart Sutras:

    TL Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva, Awakened One of Compassion,
    RP The noble Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva
    TNH Avalokiteshvara
    KTJH Avalokiteshvara, who helps all to awaken,
    JK When one with deepest wisdom of the heart
    KU Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva,

    AO When the Bodhisattva Kannon

    TL In Prajna Paramita, the Deep Practice of Perfect Wisdom
    RP while practicing the deep practice of Prajnaparamita,
    THN while practicing deeply with the Insight that Brings Us to the Other Shore,
    KTJH moves in the deep course of realizing wisdom beyond wisdom,
    JK That is beyond discriminative thought,The Holy Lord, great Kanzeon Bosatsu,
    KU When practicing deeply the Prajnaparamita
    AO was practising the profound Prajna Paramita wisdom


    TL Perceived the emptiness of all five conditions,
    RP looked upon the five skandhas
    TNH suddenly discovered that all of the five Skandhas are equally empty,
    KTJH sees that all five streams of body, heart, and mind are without boundary,
    JK Knew that the skandhas five were,
    KU Perceives that all five skandhas are empty
    AO he saw all the five aggregates to be Emptiness,


    TL And was freed of suffering.
    RP and seeing they were empty of self-existence, said,
    TNH and with this realisation he overcame all Ill-being.
    KTJH and frees all from anguish.
    JK as they are, in their self-nature, void, unstained and pure.
    KU And is saved from all suffering and distress
    AO and passed beyond suffering.


    TL Oh Shariputra, form is no other than emptiness,
    RP “Here, Shariputra, form is emptiness
    THN listen Sariputra, this Body itself is Emptiness
    KTJH O Shariputra [who listens to the teachings of the Buddha],
    form is not separate from boundlessness;
    JK O Shariputra, form is only pure,
    KU Shariputra, form is not different from emptiness,
    AO ‘O disciple Shariputra, form is not different from Emptiness,


    TL Emptiness no other than form;
    RP emptiness is form;
    TNH and Emptiness itself is this Body.
    KTJH boundlessness is not separate from form.
    JK Pure is all form; there is, then, nothing more than this,
    KU emptiness is not different from form
    AO Emptiness is not different from form


    TL Form is precisely emptiness, emptiness precisely form.
    RP emptiness is not separate from form, form is not separate from emptiness;
    whatever is form is emptiness, whatever is emptiness is form
    THN This Body is not other than Emptiness and Emptiness is not other than this Body.
    KTJH Form is boundlessness; boundlessness is form.
    JK For what is form is pure and what is pure is form;
    KU That which is form is emptiness, that which is emptiness form
    AO form is Emptiness and Emptiness is form;


    TL Sensations perceptions formations and consciousness are also like this.
    RP The same holds for sensation and perception, memory and consciousness.
    TNH The same is true of Feelings, Perceptions, Mental Formations, and Consciousness.
    KTJH Feelings, perceptions, inclinations, and discernment are also like this.
    JK The same is also true of all sensation, thought, activity and consciousness.
    KU The same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses, consciousness
    AO and so also with sensation, thinking, impulse and consciousness.


    TL Oh Shariputra, all things are expressions of emptiness,
    RP Here, Shariputra, all dharmas are defined by emptiness
    TNH “Listen Sariputra, all phenomena bear the mark of Emptiness;
    KTJH O Shariputra,boundlessness is the nature of all things.
    JK O Shariputra, here all things are pure
    KU Shariputra, all dharmas are marked with emptiness
    AO All these things, Shariputra, have the character of Emptiness,


    TL Not born, not destroyed, not stained, not pure;
    RP not birth or destruction, purity or defilement
    TNH their true nature is the nature of no Birth no Death, no Being no Non-being, no Defilement no Purity,
    KTJH It neither arises nor perishes, neither stains nor purifies,
    JK For they are neither born nor do they wholly die; They are not stained nor yet immaculate;
    KU They do not appear or disappear, are not tainted or pure,
    AO neither born nor dying, neither defiled nor pure,


    TL Neither waxing nor waning.
    RP completeness or deficiency.
    TNH no Increasing no Decreasing.
    KTJH neither increases nor decreases.
    JK Increasing not, decreasing not.
    KU do not increase or decrease
    AO neither increased nor lessened.


    TL Thus emptiness is not form; not sensation nor perception,
    RP Therefore, Shariputra, in emptiness there is no form, no sensation, no perception,
    TNH “That is why in Emptiness,Body, Feelings, Perceptions,
    KTJH Boundlessness is not limited by form, nor by feelings, perceptions,
    JK O Shariputra, in this pure there is no form, sensation, thought,
    KU Therefore in emptiness no form no feelings, perceptions,
    AO ‘So in Emptiness there is neither form nor sensation, thinking,


    TL not formation nor consciousness.
    RP no memory and no consciousness;
    TNH Mental Formations and Consciousness are not separate self entities.
    KTJH inclinations, or discernment.
    JK activity or consciousness;
    KU impulses, consciousness
    AO impulse nor consciousness;


    TL No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind;
    RP no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body and no mind;
    TNH The Eighteen Realms of Phenomena
    KTJH It is free of the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, and mind;
    JK No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind;
    KU No eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind
    AO no eye, ear, nose, tongue, body nor mind;


    TL No sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, nor object of mind;
    RP no shape, no sound, no smell, no taste, no feeling and no thought;
    TNH which are the six Sense Organs, the six Sense Objects,
    KTJH free of sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, and any object of mind;
    JK no form, no tastes, sound, colour, touch of objects;
    KU No color, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no object of mind,
    AO no form, sound, smell, taste, touch nor object of mind;


    TL No realm of sight, no realm of consciousness;
    RP no element of perception, from eye to conceptual consciousness;
    TNH and the six Consciousnesses are also not separate self entities.
    KTJH free of sensory realms, including the realm of the mind.
    JK Vision none; no consciousness;
    KU no realm of eyes And so forth until no realm of mind consciousness
    AO no element of eye, nor any of the other elements, including that of mind-consciousness;


    TL No ignorance, no end to ignorance;
    RP no causal link, from ignorance
    TNH The Twelve Links of
    KTJH It is free of ignorance and the end of ignorance.
    JK no knowledge and no sign of ignorance;
    KU No ignorance and also no extinction of it
    AO no ignorance and no extinction of ignorance,


    TL No old age and death,
    RP to old age and death,
    TNH Interdependent Arising
    KTJH Boundlessness is free of old age and death,
    JK Until we come to where old age and death have ceased
    KU And so forth until no old age
    AO nor any of the rest, including age-and death


    TL No cessation of old age and death;
    RP and no end of causal link, from ignorance to old age and death;
    TNH and their Extinction are also not separate self entities.
    KTJH and free of the end of old age and death.
    JK and so has all extinction of old age and death
    KU and death and also no extinction of them
    AO and extinction of age-and-death;


    TL No suffering, nor caus or end to suffering;
    RP no suffering, no source, no relief,
    TNH Ill-being, the Causes of Ill-being, the End of Ill-being,
    KTJHIt is free of suffering, arising, cessation,
    JK For here there is no suffering, nor yet again is there accumulation,
    KU No suffering, no origination, no stopping, no path, no cognition
    AO no suffering, no origination, no stopping,


    TL No path, no wisdom and no gain.
    RP no path; no knowledge, no attainment and no non-attainment.
    TNH the Path, insight and attainment, are also not separate self entities.
    KTJH and path, and free of wisdom and attainment.
    JK Nor again annihilation nor an Eightfold Path, no knowledge, no attainment.
    KU Also no attainment and nothing to attain
    AO no path; no wisdom and no attainment.


    TL No gain – thus Boddhisattvas live this Prajna Paramita
    RP Therefore, Shariputra, without attainment, bodhisattvas take refuge in Prajnaparamita
    TNH Whoever can see this
    KTJH Being free of attainment, those who help all to awaken abide in the realization of wisdom beyond wisdom
    JK In the mind of the Bosatsu who is truly one with Wisdom Great
    KU The bodhisattva depends on Prajnaparamita
    AO ‘The Bodhisattva, since he is not gaining anything, by the Prajna Paramita


    TL With no hindrance of mind
    RP and live without walls of the mind.
    TNH no longer needs anything to attain.
    KTJH and live with an unhindered mind.
    JK the obstacles
    KU And the mind is no hindrance;
    AO has his heart free from the net of hindrances,


    TL No hindrance therefore no fear.
    RP Without walls of the mind and thus without fears,
    TNH Bodhisattvas who practice the Insight that Brings Us to the Other Shore
    see no more obstacles in their mind,
    KTJH Without hindrance, the mind has no fear.
    JK dissolve
    KU without any hindrance, no fears exist
    AO and with no hindrances in the heart there is no fear.


    TL Far beyond all delusion, Nirvana is already here.
    RP they see through delusions and finally nirvana.
    TNH destroy all wrong perceptions and realize Perfect Nirvana. and because there
    are no more obstacles in their mind, they can overcome all fear,
    KTJH Free from confusion, those who lead all to liberation embody profound serenity.
    JK , And, going on beyond this human mind he is Nirvana.
    KU Far apart from every perverted view one dwells in nirvana
    AO Far from all perverted dream thoughts, he has reached ultimate Nirvana.


    TL All past, present and future Buddhas
    RP All buddhas past, present and future
    TNH “All Buddhas in the past, present and future
    KTJH All those in the past, present, and future,
    JK All the Buddhas True of present, ast and future they are all,
    KU In the three worlds all Buddhas
    AO By the Prajna Paramita all the Buddhas of the three worlds


    TL Live this Prajna Paramita
    RP also take refuge in Prajnaparamita
    TNH by practicing the Insight that Brings Us to the Other Shore
    KTJH who realize wisdom beyond wisdom,
    JK Because upon Great Wisdom they rely,
    KU depend on Prajnaparamita
    AO have the utmost, right


    TL And realize supreme and complete enlightenment.
    RP and realize unexcelled, perfect enlightenment.
    TNH are all capable of attaining Authentic and Perfect Enlightenment.
    KTJH manifest unsurpassable and thorough awakening.
    JK the perfect and most high enlightenment,
    KU And attain anuttara samyak sambodhi
    AO and perfect enlightenment.


    TL Therefore know that Prajna Paramita
    RP You should therefore know the great mantra of Prajnaparamita,
    TNH“Therefore Sariputra, it should be known that the Insight that Brings Us to the Other Shore
    KTJH Know that realizing wisdom beyond wisdom
    JK The Prajnaparamita one should know
    KU Therefore know that Prajnaparamita
    AO ‘Know then that the Prajna Paramita


    TL Is the sacred mantra, the luminous mantra,
    RP the mantra of great magic, the unexcelled mantra,
    TNH is a Great Mantra, the most illuminating mantra,
    KTJH is no other than this wondrous mantra, luminous,
    JK to be the Greatest Mantra of them all,
    KU is the great transcendent mantra, Is the great bright mantra
    AO is the great spiritual mantra, the great radiant mantra,


    TL the supreme mantra, the incomparable mantra
    RP the mantra equal to the unequaled,
    TNH the highest mantra, a mantra beyond compare,
    KTJH unequalled, and supreme.
    JK The highest and more peerless Mantra
    KU, is the utmost mantra, is the supreme mantra
    AO the supreme mantra, the peerless mantra,


    TL by which all suffering is clear.
    RP which heals all suffering
    TNH the True Wisdom that has the power
    KTJH It relieves all suffering.
    JK too allayer of all pain Great Wisdom is,
    KU It is able to relieve all suffering
    AO which removes all suffering,


    TL This is no other than Truth.
    RP and is true, not false,
    TNH to put an end to all kinds of suffering.
    KTJH It is genuine, not illusory.
    JK It is the very Truth, no falsehood here;
    KU and is true, not false
    AO the true, the unfailing.


    TL Therefore set forth the Prajna Paramita mantra.
    RP the mantra in Prajnaparamita
    TNH Therefore let us proclaim a mantra to praise
    KTJH So set forth this mantra of realizing wisdom beyond wisdom.
    JK This is the Mantra of Great Wisdom,
    KU So proclaim the Prajnaparamita mantra,
    AO The mantra of the Prajna Paramita is taught,


    TL Set forth this mantra and proclaim:
    RP spoken thus:
    TNH the Insight that Brings Us to the Other Shore.
    KTJH Set forth this mantra that says:
    JK hear!
    KU proclaim the mantra which says
    AO and it is taught thus:


    TL Gate! Gate! (Already Gone, Gone)
    RP Gate, gate,
    TNH Gate, Gate,
    KTJH GATÉ, GATÉ,
    JK O Buddha, going, going, going on beyond
    KU Gate gate
    AO Gate, gate,


    TL Paragate! (Already Gone Beyond)
    RP“paragate,
    TNH Paragate,
    KTJH PARAGATÉ,
    JK And always going on beyond,
    KU paragate
    AO paragate


    TL Parasamgate! (Already Fully Beyond)
    RP parasangate,
    TNH Parasamgate,
    KTJH PARASAMGATÉ,
    JK always becoming Buddha.
    KU parasamgate
    AO parasamgate


    TL Bodhi! Svaha! (Awakening, Rejoice)
    RP bodhi svaha.
    TNH Bodhi Svaha!
    KTJH BODHI! SVAHA!
    JK Hail! Hail! Hail!
    KU bodhi svaha
    AO Bodhi Svaha!
    Last edited by Onsho; 03-04-2025, 10:10 PM.
  • Seiryu
    Member
    • Sep 2010
    • 649

    #2
    Kazuaki Tanahashi who also worked on a translation of the Shobogenzo has a translation of the heart sutra that came out some years ago:

    Gassho

    SAT/LAH

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The Sutra on the Heart of Realizing Wisdom Beyond Wisdom
    Translation by Kazuaki Tanahashi and Roshi Joan Halifax

    Avalokiteshvara, who helps all to awaken,
    moves in the deep course of
    realizing wisdom beyond wisdom,
    sees that all five streams of
    body, heart, and mind are without boundary,
    and frees all from anguish.

    O Shariputra [who listens to the teachings of the Buddha],
    form is not separate from boundlessness;
    boundlessness is not separate from form.
    Form is boundlessness; boundlessness is form.
    Feelings, perceptions, inclinations, and discernment are also like this.

    O Shariputra,
    boundlessness is the nature of all things.
    It neither arises nor perishes,
    neither stains nor purifies,
    neither increases nor decreases.

    Boundlessness is not limited by form,
    nor by feelings, perceptions, inclinations, or discernment.
    It is free of the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, and mind;
    free of sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, and any object of mind;
    free of sensory realms, including the realm of the mind.
    It is free of ignorance and the end of ignorance.
    Boundlessness is free of old age and death,
    and free of the end of old age and death.
    It is free of suffering, arising, cessation, and path,
    and free of wisdom and attainment.

    Being free of attainment, those who help all to awaken
    abide in the realization of wisdom beyond wisdom
    and live with an unhindered mind.
    Without hindrance, the mind has no fear.
    Free from confusion, those who lead all to liberation
    embody profound serenity.

    All those in the past, present, and future,
    who realize wisdom beyond wisdom,
    manifest unsurpassable and thorough awakening.

    Know that realizing wisdom beyond wisdom
    is no other than this wondrous mantra,
    luminous, unequalled, and supreme.
    It relieves all suffering.
    It is genuine, not illusory.

    So set forth this mantra of realizing wisdom beyond wisdom.
    Set forth this mantra that says:

    GATÉ, GATÉ, PARAGATÉ, PARASAMGATÉ, BODHI! SVAHA!
    Humbly,
    清竜 Seiryu

    Comment

    • Onsho
      Member
      • Aug 2022
      • 198

      #3
      Looks good! i found a 2002 copy on terebess, ill add it to the pile.

      Gassho
      Onsho
      satlah

      Comment

      • Houzan
        Member
        • Dec 2022
        • 567

        #4
        Thank you, Onsho!
        Very interesting when they are put side by side like this.
        The TL translation is obviously the best

        Gassho, Hōzan
        satlah

        Comment

        • Hosui
          Member
          • Sep 2024
          • 78

          #5
          Thanks Onsho and Seiryu for this. For nearly 40 years I've been using the translation of the Order of Buddhist Contemplatives. What follows is taken from 'The Monastic Office' of the OBC (1993). It has since been updated slightly since to reflect gender neutrality.

          The Scripture of Great Wisdom
          Translation by Roshi Jiyu-Kennet and Hubert Nearman

          When one with deepest wisdom of the heart
          That is beyond discriminative thought,
          The Holy Lord, great Kanzeon Bosatsu,
          Knew that the skandhas five were, as they are, in their self-nature, void, unstained and pure.
          O Shariputra, form is only pure,
          Pure is all form; there is, then, nothing more than this,
          For what is form is pure and what is pure is form;
          The same is also true of all sensation, thought, activity and consciousness.
          O Shariputra, here all things are pure
          For they are neither born nor do they wholly die;
          They are not stained nor yet immaculate;
          Increasing not, decreasing not.
          O Shariputra, in this pure there is no form, sensation, thought, activity or consciousness;
          No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind; no form, no tastes, sound, colour, touch of objects;
          Vision none; no consciousness; no knowledge and no sign of ignorance;
          Until we come to where old age and death have ceased and so has all extinction of old age and death
          For here there is no suffering, nor yet again is there accumulation,
          Nor again annihilation nor an Eightfold Path, no knowledge, no attainment.
          In the mind of the Bosatsu who is truly one with Wisdom Great the obstacles dissolve
          And, going on beyond this human mind, he is Nirvana.
          All the Buddhas True of present, ast and future they are all,
          Because upon Great Wisdom they rely, the perfect and most high enlightenment,
          The Prajnaparamita one should know to be the Greatest Mantra of them all,
          The highest and more peerless Mantra too allayer of all pain Great Wisdom is,
          It is the very Truth, no falsehood here;
          This is the Mantra of Great Wisdom, hear!
          O Buddha, going, going, going on beyond
          And always going on beyond, always becoming Buddha. Hail! Hail! Hail!


          Gassho
          Hosui
          sat/lah today

          Comment

          • Bion
            Senior Priest-in-Training
            • Aug 2020
            • 5245

            #6
            Originally posted by Hosui
            Thanks Onsho and Seiryu for this. For nearly 40 years I've been using the translation of the Order of Buddhist Contemplatives. What follows is taken from 'The Monastic Office' of the OBC (1993). It has since been updated slightly since to reflect gender neutrality.

            The Scripture of Great Wisdom
            Translation by Roshi Jiyu-Kennet and Hubert Nearman

            When one with deepest wisdom of the heart
            That is beyond discriminative thought,
            The Holy Lord, great Kanzeon Bosatsu,
            Knew that the skandhas five were, as they are, in their self-nature, void, unstained and pure.
            O Shariputra, form is only pure,
            Pure is all form; there is, then, nothing more than this,
            For what is form is pure and what is pure is form;
            The same is also true of all sensation, thought, activity and consciousness.
            O Shariputra, here all things are pure
            For they are neither born nor do they wholly die;
            They are not stained nor yet immaculate;
            Increasing not, decreasing not.
            O Shariputra, in this pure there is no form, sensation, thought, activity or consciousness;
            No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind; no form, no tastes, sound, colour, touch of objects;
            Vision none; no consciousness; no knowledge and no sign of ignorance;
            Until we come to where old age and death have ceased and so has all extinction of old age and death
            For here there is no suffering, nor yet again is there accumulation,
            Nor again annihilation nor an Eightfold Path, no knowledge, no attainment.
            In the mind of the Bosatsu who is truly one with Wisdom Great the obstacles dissolve
            And, going on beyond this human mind, he is Nirvana.
            All the Buddhas True of present, ast and future they are all,
            Because upon Great Wisdom they rely, the perfect and most high enlightenment,
            The Prajnaparamita one should know to be the Greatest Mantra of them all,
            The highest and more peerless Mantra too allayer of all pain Great Wisdom is,
            It is the very Truth, no falsehood here;
            This is the Mantra of Great Wisdom, hear!
            O Buddha, going, going, going on beyond
            And always going on beyond, always becoming Buddha. Hail! Hail! Hail!


            Gassho
            Hosui
            sat/lah today
            Jiyu-Kennet adds a little christian flavor to her translations always and sometimes, they are a bit leaning more towards reinterpretation than simple translation. Just a tiny note

            Gassho
            sat lah
            "A person should train right here & now.
            Whatever you know as discordant in the world,
            don't, for its sake, act discordantly,
            for that life, the enlightened say, is short." - The Buddha

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 41423

              #7
              Originally posted by Bion

              Jiyu-Kennet adds a little christian flavor to her translations always and sometimes, they are a bit leaning more towards reinterpretation than simple translation. Just a tiny note

              Gassho
              sat lah
              Ya think so? Just a little maybe.

              The Holy Lord, great Kanzeon Bosatsu,
              Knew that the skandhas five were, as they are, in their self-nature, void, unstained and pure.
              O Shariputra, form is only pure,


              There are many ways to translate something and still be faithful to the original and accurate, and then there are ways that are pretty free and deviate much from the original.

              Folks may be interested in this little explanation of the Heart Sutra version we chant here here ...

              Dear All, It is said that we study certain texts such as the Heart Sutra for their pointers on Wisdom and Emptiness, then place the text down to throw our "self" into the sound and movement of reciting the Heart Sutra in order to embody this Wisdom and Emptiness, losing and finding oneself again. My Dharma


              ... and there are like explanations for most of the other chants heard regularly around here (including why we DO NOT chant some things.)





              Gassho, Jundo
              stlah
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • Onsho
                Member
                • Aug 2022
                • 198

                #8
                Originally posted by Jundo
                Folks may be interested in this little explanation of the Heart Sutra version we chant here here ...
                The only reason I stick around is that we are Satsu folks. Friends dont let friends be Bussetsu people.

                Gassho,
                Onsho
                satlah

                Comment

                • Hosui
                  Member
                  • Sep 2024
                  • 78

                  #9
                  Please expand, Onsho

                  Gassho
                  Hosui
                  sta/lah

                  Comment

                  • Onsho
                    Member
                    • Aug 2022
                    • 198

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Hosui
                    The Scripture of Great Wisdom
                    Translation by Roshi Jiyu-Kennet and Hubert Nearman
                    Added!
                    Thanks for bringing it to the table.

                    Gassho
                    Onsho
                    satlah

                    Comment

                    • Hosui
                      Member
                      • Sep 2024
                      • 78

                      #11
                      Love what you're doing here, Onsho

                      This comparison is worthy of more study on my part, and helps me understand why I feel drawn to the Bodhisattva Manjusri, who's recognised (see Taigen Dan Leigton's Faces of Compassion) as the spokesperson for the perfection of wisdom ( p.119). As Taigen Dan Leighton says, "Manjustri works to reveal our enslavement by language, and to liberate language and use it to express the deeper realities" (p115). IMHO, the service you're doing here reveals both of these aspects of language - deep bows.

                      Gassho
                      Hosui
                      sat/lah today

                      Comment

                      • Hosui
                        Member
                        • Sep 2024
                        • 78

                        #12
                        they are a bit leaning more towards reinterpretation than simple translation
                        Bion

                        There are many ways to translate something and still be faithful to the original and accurate, and then there are ways that are pretty free and deviate much from the original.
                        Jundo

                        Thanks, both, for pointing out Roshi Jiyu-Kennet's biases. Outside of the philological niceties, for me (not a translator) this seems like a case of how inappropriate it is to believe something simply because one's teacher has taught it - which works both ways in my case. In the light of this injunction, and as I understand it, nothing is better than direct experience. Which in my case, in turn, points to the "four reliances" underlying Buddhist inquiry (see Science and Philosophy in the Indian Buddhist Classics by His Holiness the Dalai Lama): "rely on the teaching, not on the person; rely on the meaning, not the words; rely on the definitive meaning, not the provisional meaning; and rely on wisdom knowledge, not ordinary intellectual understanding" (vol 1, p.41).

                        Just sayin

                        Gassho
                        Hosui
                        sat/lah today

                        Comment

                        • Taigen
                          Member
                          • Jan 2024
                          • 121

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Onsho

                          The only reason I stick around is that we are Satsu folks. Friends dont let friends be Bussetsu people.

                          Gassho,
                          Onsho
                          satlah
                          I had to go read the whole of Jundo’s explanation of the heart sutra to get this joke but it was totally worth it.

                          gassho,
                          Taigen
                          satlah

                          Comment

                          • Shinshi
                            Senior Priest-in-Training
                            • Jul 2010
                            • 3862

                            #14
                            Thanks for putting this together Onsho. Really interesting to parse through the various translations. Everyone sees things a bit differently I guess. Or they see it the same but manifest different language to describe it.

                            Gassho,

                            Shinshi

                            SaT-LaH



                            空道 心志 Kudo Shinshi

                            For Zen students a weed is a treasure. With this attitude, whatever you do, life becomes an art.
                            ​— Shunryu Suzuki

                            E84I - JAJ

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                            • Jundo
                              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 41423

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Onsho

                              The only reason I stick around is that we are Satsu folks. Friends dont let friends be Bussetsu people.

                              Please expand, Onsho

                              Gassho
                              Hosui
                              Oh, he is referring to this 'fun fact' from the "About the Heart Sutra (we chant at Treeleaf)" link ...

                              A small point: I am sometimes asked why our chant of the Hannya Shingyo at Treeleaf begins with ...

                              Maka hannya haramitta shingyō
                              .
                              ... rather than ...

                              Bussetsu Maka hannya haramitta shingyō
                              .
                              ... as recited in some traditions. "Bussetsu" (仏説) literally means "As expounded by the Buddha." As you can hear at the 30 second mark of the video immediately above, in Soto-shu there is no "Bussetsu." As far as I know, only certain sects ... Shingon for one ... add the Bussetsu. You can hear that at the very start of this Shingon Buddhist version ...


                              .
                              Another small difference, in the first line, some recite ... "Kan ji zai bo SA gyo jin ..." and some recite "Kan ji zai bo SATSU gyo jin ... " (The Shingon version, above, clearly has "SA" at the 10 second mark.) As far as I know, even within Soto-shu, this varies lineage by lineage. The official Soto-shu chant book in phonetic "romaji" says "SA" (https://www.sotozen.com/eng/practice.../pdf/04/04.pdf) but this other official Soto-shu page (https://www.soto-kinki.net/sp/okyo/list_shingyo.php), in Hiragana, says "SATSU."

                              This gathering of 108 Soto-shu affiliated priests clearly "SATSU" at the 30 second mark, even though the subtitles clearly say "SA!!!"


                              At Treeleaf, well, I think we are also SATSU folks, with no BUSSETSU.

                              https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/tre...hannya-shingyo
                              Hosui also commented ...

                              Originally posted by Hosui
                              ... this seems like a case of how inappropriate it is to believe something simply because one's teacher has taught it
                              Oh no! Kennett Roshi's version is a beautiful version. It is just helpful sometimes to know where someone is "coming from" in their translations or other writings. So, she was a mystic who had wild visions (recounted in some of her books), often to do with presenting Soto Zen with an Anglican / High Church feeling. Many of their texts have a bit of a "King James" feel to them, intentional on her part. Their priests used to wear the "white colar" common for Christian clergy, and their beautiful chants are very much based on Gregorian Chants (technically Evensong, a kind of Anglican Gregorian Chant, in my limited understanding of church music). You can hear at the link ...

                              https://throssel.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/06greatwis.mp3?fbclid=IwAR3v7SaWImAXm5lpb7_OHiyNZI PEIfIFczLfiA7mED4bv_GMpINT2kULBdQ

                              So long as one understands the intent and history, it is a beautiful thing to attempt to merge Buddhist and Protestant sensibilities and customs.

                              Gassho, Jundo
                              stlah
                              Last edited by Jundo; 03-02-2025, 03:09 AM.
                              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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