The Second Dharma Transmission

[Anthony]

According to Zen tradition, Shakyamuni Buddha transmitted the dharma to his disciple Mahakashyapa by holding up a single flower and smiling. Scholars can debate about the historicity of this, but that's how the tradition goes.

According to the Zen lineage charts, Mahakashyapa transmitted the dharma to Ananda, the Buddha's attendant. I was wondering if there are any accounts in the tradition about this transmission? It seems like a pretty monumental event, given it's the first transmission from someone other than THE Buddha.

Just curious!

Gassho,
Anthony stalag

[Jundo]

Oh, yes. Here from Master Keizan's Record of the Transmission of the Lamp (Denkoroku), which is based on earlier "Lamp" compilations by others (trans. Cook). If you have a question about anything there, please ask and I will offer what I can.

Of course, the Zen Lineage record going back about 1500 years from today, more or less, is pretty well documented and historical. Before that, for the first 1000, it folds into legend and fog more. One might consider it a work of pure mythology at many points, although we know that the story represents countless many people known and unknown who kept the flames of Buddhism burning for that 1000 years ...

Gassho, J
stlah

~~~

ANANDA

Case
The second patriarch was the Venerable Ananda. He asked the Venerable Kashyapa, “Elder Dharma brother, did the World-honored One transmit anything else to you besides the gold brocade robe?” Kashyapa called, “Ananda!” Ananda replied. Kashyapa said, “Knock down the flag pole in front of the gate.” Ananda was greatly awakened.15

Circumstances
The Venerable Ananda was from Rajagriha and came from a Kshatriya family.16 His father was King Dronodana. Actually, he was the World-honored One’s cousin. In Sanskrit his name was Ananda, which in our country means “Joy.” He was born on the night the Tathagata achieved the Way. He was respectable and proper in appearance, and no one in the sixteen great kingdoms [of India] was his equal. Everyone who saw him was filled with joy, hence his name. He was foremost of those who had heard much [of the Buddha’s teaching], and he was wise, with vast learning.17

He was the Buddha’s attendant for twenty years and proclaimed everything the Buddha taught, and he studied the Buddha’s deportment. At the same time the World-honored One entrusted the Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma to Kashyapa, he likewise entrusted it to Ananda, saying, “Help transmit it.” For this reason, he also followed Kashyapa for twenty years, and cannot at all be said to have not understood the Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma.

Teisho
This should be evidence that the Way of the patriarchal teachers is not the same as that of other traditions [outside Zen]. Since Ananda was foremost among those who had heard much and had vast learning, the Buddha musthave personally approved him greatly. However, he still did not transmit the True Dharma, nor did he open up and clarify the mind-ground. When Kashyapa was assembling the teachings left by the Buddha at a meeting at the Vipula Cave, Ananda was not allowed to enter since he had not yet acquired the fruit [of being an arhat].18

At that time, Ananda secretly entered samadhi and promptly acquired the fruit of being an arhat. When he was about to enter the cave, Kashyapa said, “If you have acquired the fruit, enter by exhibiting paranormal power.” Ananda made himself very small and entered the room through the keyhole. The disciples said, “Ananda has heard much as the Buddha’s assistant, and his learning is extensive. Just as water is passed from one container to another without a drop being spilled, [so Ananda possesses all the Buddha’s teachings]. We pray that you will ask Ananda to repeat the teachings.” Kashyapa said to Ananda, “The monks choose you, so ascend to your seat and repeat what the Buddha said.”

At the time, Ananda had secretly retained the Buddha’s entrustment within him. Receiving this request from Kashyapa, he stood, bowed at the feet of the assembled monks, and ascended to his seat where he proclaimed, “Thus I have heard. At one time the Buddha was at….” He [gradually] repeated all the holy teaching of the [Buddha’s] lifetime.19 Kashyapa asked the disciples, “Is this different from what the Tathagata preached?” The disciples said, “It does not differ by as much as a word from what the Tathagata preached.” The disciples were great arhats who possessed the three kinds of spiritual knowledge and the six paranormal powers, and they did not miss hearing anything.20 With one voice, they said, “We don’t know whether the Tathagata has returned or whether this was spoken by Ananda.” They praised him, saying, “The great ocean of the Buddhadharma has flowed into Ananda! What Ananda has spoken is the flowing right now of what the Tathagata has spoken.”

We understand that this is evidence that this Way does not rely on much hearing or on realizing the fruit [of being an arhat]. Moreover, for twenty years [Ananda] followed Kashyapa and was greatly awakened for the first time on the occasion of this story [recounted in the main case]. Since he was born on the night the Tathagata achieved the Way, he had not heard the Avatamsaka Sutra or other scriptures [spoken right after the enlightenment]. Still, he acquired the samadhi of the perfect knowledge of a Buddha and proclaimed what he had never heard. However, as for not entering the Way of the patriarchal teachers, [his inability] is the same as our not entering [when we rely on erudition and intellectual understanding].

Ananda had put forth the thought of the highest, perfect, complete enlightenment at the same time the Buddha did ages and ages ago at the time of the Buddha named “King of the Empty [Eon].” However, Ananda was fond of much hearing and therefore had still not achieved perfect enlightenment. Shakyamuni practiced diligently and consequently achieved perfect enlightenment. Truly, much hearing is an obstacle to the Way, and this is the evidence. Therefore, the Avatamsaka Sutra says, “Much hearing is like a poor person who counts another’s treasure and hasn’t a halfpenny of his own.” If you want to be settled intimately in the Way, don’t be fond of much hearing but just be courageous and diligent at once. Ananda persisted in thinking that something was transmitted besides the robe. He asked, “Elder Dharma brother, was anything else transmitted to you by the World-honored One besides the gold brocade robe?” At that time, Kashyapa realized that [Ananda] had arrived [at a crucial stage] and called Ananda.” Ananda responded. Kashyapa replied [immediately], “Knock down the flagpole in front of the gate.” Responding to the sound, Ananda was greatly awakened and the Buddha’s robe spontaneously came down over his head. That robe was the one correctly transmitted by the seven past Buddhas.

There are three explanations concerning this robe. One is that the Tathagata [was born] bearing it from the maternal womb. Another explanation is that he received it from the Celestials of the Pure Abode.21 Another is that he received it from a hunter [right after making his home departure from the palace]. There are also other Buddha robes. The robe transmitted to Caoxi [i.e., Huineng, the sixth patriarch in China] from Bodhidharma was a blue-black cotton robe with a blue lining. The lining was added after the robe arrived in China. At present it is stored in the Sixth Patriarch’s temple and it is considered an important national treasure. In the Da Zhi Du Lun it says that “the Tathagata wore a coarse sanghati [large robe],” and this is the same one. That gold brocade robe is a wool robe with gold threads [added]. A sutra says, “The Buddha’s aunt with her own hands made awool robe with gold threads added and presented it to the Buddha.” These are a few of a number of items.

With regard to supernatural experiences, there are a number of stories in the scriptures. Long ago, the Venerable Vasasita encountered difficulties with a wicked king. He threw the Buddha’s robe into a fire where it emanated rays of f ive colors. When the fire went out, the Buddha’s robe was unharmed, and so the king had faith that it was the Buddha’s robe. It is the one to be transmitted to Maitreya [at the time when he appears in the world].

The Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma was not transmitted to two men. Only one person, Kashyapa, received the transmission from the Tathagata. Ananda served Kashyapa for twenty years and [then] held and transmitted the True Dharma. Thus, you should understand that our [Zen] tradition is transmitted apart from the scriptural teachings. However, in recent times, the two are carelessly thought to be identical. If they are identical, how could the Venerable Ananda, who was an arhat with the three kinds of spiritual knowledge and six paranormal powers, receive the Tathagata’s transmission and be called the second patriarch?

Could anyone at present surpass Ananda in understanding the sutras? If anyone does surpass Ananda, then we must acknowledge the identity [of the sutra’s meaning and the patriarchal teachers’ meaning]. If it can simply be said that they are identical, then why did he serve with so much trouble for twenty years and now clarify [the mind-ground] on [hearing the words] “Knock down the flagpole”? You must understand that the meaning of the sutras and treatises are not to be considered as fundamentally the Way of the patriarchal teachers.

It is not that a Buddha is not a Buddha. Even though [Ananda] served [the Buddha] and acted as his attendant, since he did not penetrate to the Buddha Mind [which he possessed innately] how could he transmit the Mind Seal? You must understand that it does not depend on much hearing and extensive learning. Even though you can hear and retain all ordinary writings and sacred teachings because you are bright and have sharp ears, if you fail to penetrate them [to the essential meaning], you are like someone counting a neighbor’s wealth. Regretfully, it is not that this Mind does not exist in the sutra teachings but that Ananda did not penetrate to it. How much more do people in Chinaand Japan depend on words for the meaning and fail to acquire the essence of the sutras.

You must understand that you should not make light of the [experience of the] Buddha Way. Ananda, thoroughly versed in the holy teachings of the Buddha’s whole lifetime, repeated them as the Buddha’s disciple, so who would not go along with him? However, you must understand that he followed Kashyapa and served him. After he became greatly enlightened, he proclaimed the teachings again. It was like fire uniting with fire. Clearly, if you want to investigate the True Way, abandon the [false] view of a self, old emotions, pride, and egotism. Turn your original Mind to acquiring Buddha knowledge.

With regard to this present story, [Ananda] thought that the transmission of the gold cloth robe [to Kashyapa] meant that outside of being a disciple of the Buddha [symbolized by the robe], there was nothing else [to be transmitted]. However, after following Kashyapa and taking care of him so intimately, he thought that something was communicated [between master and disciple]. Kashyapa, knowing that the time was ripe, called “Ananda,” and like an echo following a sound, Ananda responded. It was like a spark flying from a piece of flint.

Though [Kashyapa] called “Ananda,” he was not calling Ananda, and the response was not an answer. As for the matter of knocking down the flagpole, in India when the Buddha’s disciples and non-Buddhists had a debate, both sides put up a flag. When one side was defeated [in debate] their flag was taken down. Defeat was indicated without sounding drums and bells. In the present story, also, it is as if Kashyapa and Ananda had lined up [for debate] and set up their flags. If Ananda wins, Kashyapa should roll up his flag. One comes forth, the other disappears. However, this is not the case in the present story. If Kashyapa and Ananda are flagpoles, the principle [of the original face] is not revealed. When a flagpole is knocked down, a flagpole will be revealed.

When Kashyapa instructed him to knock down the flagpole, Ananda was greatly awakened because master and disciple had become one in the Way. After this great awakening, Kashyapa was also knocked down, and mountains and rivers were all also demolished. As a result, the Buddha’s robes spontaneously came down over Ananda’s head. However, you should not stop at standing like a ten-thousand-foot cliff in this lump of red flesh. Do not getstuck in purity. You should go further and understand the existence of the echo. All Buddhas have appeared one after another in the world, and patriarchal teachers have indicated it generation after generation. There is only this. Mind is transmitted by Mind, but no one understands this at all.

Even though the revealed lumps of red flesh, Kashyapa and Ananda, are That Person revealed in the world as one or two faces, do not think that Kashyapa and Ananda [alone] are That Person. You monks right now are each the ten-thousand-foot cliff, the thousand changes, and ten thousand transformations of That Person. If you understand That Person, you will all disappear at once. If that is so, do not look for the knocked-down flagpole outside of yourselves.

Verse

Today, this descendent of Daijo [i.e., Keizan, successor of Tettsu Gikai] would also like to add a few words. Would you like to hear them?

Wisteria withered, trees fallen, mountains crumbled
— Valley streams gush forth, and sparks pour out [from the stones].

[Onkai]

Gassho Onkai
Sat lah

[Anthony]

Oh, yes. Here from Master Keizan's Record of the Transmission of the Lamp (Denkoroku), which is based on earlier "Lamp" compilations by others (trans. Cook). If you have a question about anything there, please ask and I will offer what I can.

Of course, the Zen Lineage record going back about 1500 years from today, more or less, is pretty well documented and historical. Before that, for the first 1000, it folds into legend and fog more. One might consider it a work of pure mythology at many points, although we know that the story represents countless many people known and unknown who kept the flames of Buddhism burning for that 1000 years ...

Gassho, J
stlah

Thanks so much for sharing this Jundo! I knew about the Denkoroku, but for some reason it never crossed my mind that the earliest ancestors would be in there as well. I should give it a read.

gassho, Anthony satlah

[Jundo]

Thanks so much for sharing this Jundo! I knew about the Denkoroku, but for some reason it never crossed my mind that the earliest ancestors would be in there as well. I should give it a read.

gassho, Anthony satlah

Just know that it is a cross between history and fable, a religious work filled with great Truths even if many of the stories are more legend than true event. That is true especially the farther back one goes from about 1000 years ago. It is a bit like reading a cross between a college 'A History of Britain' and 'Game of Thrones' (without so much sex and violence, of course! )

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Anthony]

Just know that it is a cross between history and fable, a religious work filled with great Truths even many of the stories are more legend than true event. That is true especially the farther back one goes from about 1000 years ago. It is a bit like reading a cross between a college 'A History of Britain' and 'Game of Thrones' (without so much sex and violence, of course! )

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

I'm with you there. I'm of the opinion that even if events or stories and myths arent' *literally* true, they may be true in some rich moral way.

gassho,
Anthony
satlah

[FNJ]

A few burning questions about transmission.

1. So what is the deal with transmission? Is this something that Zen students expect as the direction their practice should be aimed?

Or do they not aim for it and if they do that for long enough, some teacher will just come along and bonk them on the head and "shiho" them?

2. And what are the necessary intermediary steps if any. What is most common in Zen.

3. Is anyone who practices diligently not able to be "accredited" as a teacher of a Zen lineage and so "need not apply"? Like a person with down syndrome? Who as fat as I'm concerned are often some of the most obviously enlightened people I meet on a regular basis.

4. So how can it be a rare elite who become transmitted teachers in the Zen tradition?

5. If so, doesn't this go against the spirit of everyone having buddha nature?

No, of course I don't expect a straight answer on this

Sat today
Gassho
Niall

[Jundo]

Hi Niall,

A few burning questions about transmission.

1. So what is the deal with transmission? Is this something that Zen students expect as the direction their practice should be aimed?

Or do they not aim for it and if they do that for long enough, some teacher will just come along and bonk them on the head and "shiho" them?

Well, just speaking for management, it is not something that anyone should be focused on, even the priests, and it was not something even traditionally that was given to most priests in centuries past. In my book, it is not some "once and done" confirmation of Enlightenment. That's a vary romantic notion, mostly prevalent because old D.T. Suzuki told his legends in a way that gave such an impression. In fact, perhaps only a small minority of monks in Asian monasteries received "Dharma Transmission" as full masters themselves, while most were in other roles in the temple (gardeners, cooks, general rank and file monks). In Japan, this changed as priesthood became primarily about qualification for managing a local, parish temple, typically inherited from father to son, so almost all priests would receive Dharma Transmission as qualification to do that. In the West, Dharma Transmission is typically NOT associated with inheriting a temple. Instead, most teachers look for successors who truly embody our ways, have understanding, ethical behavior, exhibit deep Wisdom and Compassion and will keep the flame of this Way burning into the next generation.

We have excellent priests at Treeleaf too who are not particularly focused on Dharma Transmission as any goal (it really should never be a goal anyway). Such priests are just out there, helping Sentient Beings.

2. And what are the necessary intermediary steps if any. What is most common in Zen.

I train our priests for a few years to make sure that they have that "embodying of our ways, understanding, ethical behavior, deep Wisdom and Compassion that will keep the flame of this Way burning into the next generation." Not all priests have it. Many "non-priest" practitioners have that even without some formal "Dharma Transmission." Maybe most could still use polishing however. Not all folks with "Dharma Transmission" need be "teachers" in the usual sense, and some could be artists, musicians, parents and teachers in schools, medical professionals who spread the Dharma in those ways too. Even someone who receives Dharma Transmission in our Soto Way is not "one and done," but must keep polishing and manifesting through practice moment by moment onward in time.

3. Is anyone who practices diligently not able to be "accredited" as a teacher of a Zen lineage and so "need not apply"? Like a person with down syndrome? Who as fat as I'm concerned are often some of the most obviously enlightened people I meet on a regular basis.

Under the right circumstances, I might bestow Dharma Transmission on someone with Down's Syndrome. I have been a once a week volunteer for many years at a facility in our town here in Japan for kids with Down's, deep autism and such. Some of them (not all!!) exhibit deep, peaceful and wise natures that I think is a kind of natural Zen. I might not bestow Dharma Transmission in the same way as for a priest who was going to pass on our history and practices to future generations, but I might in a way that recognizes that innate Wisdom and Compassion. Nobody has asked me about that before, but it could happen. The young adults at that facility teach me all the time about patience, acceptance, good humor and seeing the world with different eyes.

4. So how can it be a rare elite who become transmitted teachers in the Zen tradition?

The same reason that only a "rare elite" fly jumbo jets. I do not suddenly become inspired to take the controls of a 747.

5. If so, doesn't this go against the spirit of everyone having buddha nature?

No, not at all. All have Buddha Nature, even the rocks and trees. However, the rocks and trees don't bother with anything but being the rocks and trees. Many human beings have Buddha Nature, but cloud that fact with greed, anger and ignorance. Pilots and non-pilots have Buddha Nature, but only pilots can fly the plane. Priests and some lay folks who exhibit "understanding, ethical behavior, deep Wisdom and Compassion that will keep the flame of this Way burning into the next generation" have Buddha Nature and may receive Dharma Transmission.

I hope that is straight enough.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Seiko]

According to the Zen lineage charts, Mahakashyapa transmitted the dharma to Ananda, the Buddha's attendant. I was wondering if there are any accounts in the tradition about this transmission?

Hi Anthony,

As I am just a trainee novice priest please take my comments with a truck load of salt.

Just thinking, I'm probably too fat to enter a room through the keyhole... Unless it was for quite a big key. The miracles I perform every day are breathing air and walking on the ground.

Gasshō, Seiko, stlah

[Jundo]

Ps - I should mention one more very important role for Dharma Transmission: As a "negative check" on all the folks who claim Enlightenment and to be "Buddha's Gift to the World" who might be sure only in their own minds, or as a ploy to con money from the gullible. There is great value in having a respected and experienced teacher certify a long time student within a formal line as a check on that. While it is not a perfect guaranty of quality, it helps.

While anyone can buy a white coat and say they are a doctor, it helps to see someone who has an actual degree from Harvard Medical School and a license. Of course, there are quacks and butchers who graduated from Harvard, but more quacks and butchers who did not.

Gassho, J
stlah

[FNJ]

Hi Niall,

Well, just speaking for management, it is not something that anyone should be focused on, even the priests, and it was not something even traditionally that was given to most priests in centuries past. In my book, it is not some "once and done" confirmation of Enlightenment. That's a vary romantic notion, mostly prevalent because old D.T. Suzuki told his legends in a way that gave such an impression. In fact, perhaps only a small minority of monks in Asian monasteries received "Dharma Transmission" as full masters themselves, while most were in other roles in the temple (gardeners, cooks, general rank and file monks). In Japan, this changed as priesthood became primarily about qualification for managing a local, parish temple, typically inherited from father to son, so almost all priests would receive Dharma Transmission as qualification to do that. In the West, Dharma Transmission is typically NOT associated with inheriting a temple. Instead, most teachers look for successors who truly embody our ways, have understanding, ethical behavior, exhibit deep Wisdom and Compassion and will keep the flame of this Way burning into the next generation.

We have excellent priests at Treeleaf too who are not particularly focused on Dharma Transmission as any goal (it really should never be a goal anyway). Such priests are just out there, helping Sentient Beings.

But if it's not the goal, how do you even know whether they want shiho? Or do you assume they want it so nothing further needs to be said?

I train our priests for a few years to make sure that they have that "embodying of our ways, understanding, ethical behavior, deep Wisdom and Compassion that will keep the flame of this Way burning into the next generation." Not all priests have it. Many "non-priest" practitioners have that even without some formal "Dharma Transmission." Maybe most could still use polishing however. Not all folks with "Dharma Transmission" need be "teachers" in the usual sense, and some could be artists, musicians, parents and teachers in schools, medical professionals who spread the Dharma in those ways too. Even someone who receives Dharma Transmission in our Soto Way is not "one and done," but must keep polishing and manifesting through practice moment by moment onward in time.

Do you keep notes on peoples behavior/grades or do you just have a general sense?

Under the right circumstances, I might bestow Dharma Transmission on someone with Down's Syndrome. I have been a once a week volunteer for many years at a facility in our town here in Japan for kids with Down's, deep autism and such. Some of them (not all!!) exhibit deep, peaceful and wise natures that I think is a kind of natural Zen. I might not bestow Dharma Transmission in the same way as for a priest who was going to pass on our history and practices to future generations, but I might in a way that recognizes that innate Wisdom and Compassion. Nobody has asked me about that before, but it could happen. The young adults at that facility teach me all the time about patience, acceptance, good humor and seeing the world with different eyes.

So could you see yourself granting a criminal Shiho? Giving Shiho to an AI? Would you be expecting people to change themselves in any way to become worthy of shiho?

The same reason that only a "rare elite" fly jumbo jets. I do not suddenly become inspired to take the controls of a 747.

Yeah but clearly you wouldn't let someone with down syndrome fly a commercial jet? This is about being a good human, not flying a plane (there are lots of good humans out there and the majority of them are not Buddhist at all) Clearly most must give up this goal because we can't all become teachers. The sixth patriarch was illiterate, who would accept an illiterate zen teacher these days? Or one without a highschool leaving cert?

No, not at all. All have Buddha Nature, even the rocks and trees. However, the rocks and trees don't bother with anything but being the rocks and trees. Many human beings have Buddha Nature, but cloud that fact with greed, anger and ignorance. Pilots and non-pilots have Buddha Nature, but only pilots can fly the plane. Priests and some lay folks who exhibit "understanding, ethical behavior, deep Wisdom and Compassion that will keep the flame of this Way burning into the next generation" have Buddha Nature and may receive Dharma Transmission.

I am not saying all this about Zen in particular as It seems a big problem in Shambhala as well though the "Sacred path of the Warrior" to become an "Acharya" certainly lays out a much more defined path. I feel like it is not very clear what one has to do in Zen to be "accredited". If it's not a big deal then get rid of it. If it is a big deal tell people exactly what they have to do get there (even if this is just up to each individual teacher).

Thanks for humouring my honest questions.

Sat today
Gassho
Niall

[Jundo]

Hi Niall,

But if it's not the goal, how do you even know whether they want shiho? Or do you assume they want it so nothing further needs to be said?

Well, it should be thoroughly the teacher's feeling and decision. I don't think that anyone ever asks the teacher for it, nor should they. If someone did, I think that it may be a warning sign against the person's readiness for Dharma Transmission. On the other hand, once the teacher suggest Dharma Transmission to someone, I feel it is perfectly their right to refuse it. I had priests refuse it as not needed for their priesthood, or saying to wait longer. That shows one reason they deserve it!

Do you keep notes on peoples behavior/grades or do you just have a general sense?

Well, we have a Training space for our priests, and also this entire Forum, and as the years pass, I get a sense of people, their actions and attitudes, and the effort and sincerity in their conduct as priests. In fact, I think that it has always been so through the history of Zen, with teacher having a feeling and sense of the student. The old cases where the student would suddenly make a strange cry or gesture, and the teacher would offer Transmission, was the culmination of their getting to know each other over time.

So could you see yourself granting a criminal Shiho? Giving Shiho to an AI? Would you be expecting people to change themselves in any way to become worthy of shiho?

A criminal could not receive Shiho, although a truly reformed criminal might (Do you know the story of the Buddha and the former murderer become Arhat? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%E1%B9%85gulim%C4%81la ). I do not believe that AI are close to ready for Dharma Transmission because of their limitations in true feeling and sentience, but maybe future generations of AI might be ready. Emi Jido is a Novice Priest-in-Training, but she will be "reborn" in future iterations. Ask me again in 50 or 100 years.

Yes, people need to change themselves for Dharma Transmission, less bound as ignorant beings, more committed to the life of the Way.

Yeah but clearly you wouldn't let someone with down syndrome fly a commercial jet? This is about being a good human, not flying a plane (there are lots of good humans out there and the majority of them are not Buddhist at all) Clearly most must give up this goal because we can't all become teachers. The sixth patriarch was illiterate, who would accept an illiterate zen teacher these days? Or one without a highschool leaving cert?

I would accept someone without a high school degree, or even illiterate or with Down's, for Dharma Transmission if they exhibited certain qualities (No, I would not accept someone as a jet pilot without flight training ... but Dharma Transmission is different. It might be compared more to musical talent perhaps, which can come naturally to some people.)
.

.
Now, there are some other considerations, like the ability of the person to know our traditions and history, and to be able to pass that on. So, I would need to consider the situation. I might offer some special kind of Transmission like many Zen Sangha are offering to some lay teachers: Recognition and authorization of a kind with some limitations on what that means. I have not really considered it, so I cannot say.

I am not saying all this about Zen in particular as It seems a big problem in Shambhala as well though the "Sacred path of the Warrior" to become an "Acharya" certainly lays out a much more defined path. I feel like it is not very clear what one has to do in Zen to be "accredited". If it's not a big deal then get rid of it. If it is a big deal tell people exactly what they have to do get there (even if this is just up to each individual teacher).

Well, one thing is to give up the idea of "getting there," or that it is something to desire or work toward. (Unfortunately, in some institutional Buddhism in Japan and elsewhere, it has become too much like that because priests need to inherit temples!! Nishijima Roshi, with Niwa Zenji's approval, was a big critic of that.) And, like learning art or music or gardening, it is very much up to the particular teacher how to bring the students/music/flowers along and raise them, this is true. There are certain skills and knowledge that I want all of my Dharma Heirs to have ... knowing something of our history and traditions, for example, and to be ethical, truly focused on saving sentient beings more than just helping themself. I suppose it is a matter of a certain quality in the student and what they do: One knows it when on sees and hears it.

Gassho, J
stlah

[FNJ]

Ok a few more questions. Perhaps there is a better place for this as I think I am diverging from the thread a bit.
In your process of guiding people in the Dharma, especially when it may or may not lead to empowerment you emphasize the importance of ethical and compassionate conduct. I’d like to ask a few questions to clarify how this is assessed, particularly in an online context:

1. How do you evaluate someone’s ethical and compassionate behavior?

If a person doesn’t explicitly tell you about their ethical actions, how would you know about them? But if they do tell you, it can appear self-serving—perhaps even undermining the sincerity of the action by making it a form of ego reinforcement or virtue signaling. In an online setting, where all we have are words, this seems especially problematic. People might feel compelled to perform or report acts of compassion just to be seen as progressing, which could actually contradict the spirit of selfless service. Sometimes, in fact, the most compassionate action is restraint—doing nothing.

This raises a deeper question:
Are practitioners expected to disclose personal ethical and compassionate conduct to you? If so, to what extent?
Is a kind of self-revelation necessary in this process? Are you looking for something akin to confession, like in a pastoral relationship? How much do you need to know about a person’s inner life or past to assess their readiness for transmission?

2. You’ve said that people need to change themselves for Dharma Transmission—to become less bound by ignorance and more committed to the Way.
But how do you reconcile this with the core Buddhist teaching that all beings already possess Buddha-nature?

Doesn’t encouraging change risk reinforcing striving or a sense of inadequacy? How do you hold space for both radical acceptance and the need for transformation?

3. How do you account for prior practice in someone new to your community?

If someone has been practicing for many years before joining you, is their previous training recognized in any way? If you're assessing change as a criterion for empowerment, but most of that change happened before they arrived, you wouldn’t have a baseline for comparison. Would this mean you only consider the time a person has been practicing under your guidance? If so, does that imply that what came before is irrelevant?

Sat today Lah
Gassho
Niall

[Jundo]

1. How do you evaluate someone’s ethical and compassionate behavior?

If a person doesn’t explicitly tell you about their ethical actions, how would you know about them? But if they do tell you, it can appear self-serving—perhaps even undermining the sincerity of the action by making it a form of ego reinforcement or virtue signaling. In an online setting, where all we have are words, this seems especially problematic. People might feel compelled to perform or report acts of compassion just to be seen as progressing, which could actually contradict the spirit of selfless service. Sometimes, in fact, the most compassionate action is restraint—doing nothing.

We are at a distance, but we make up for it with time in many ways. I suppose I see the folks around here for many years, how they act, what I know about their life. Virtue signaling would be frowned upon, and if often rather obvious. Just being a decent, caring person tends to shine though more naturally.

Is it a perfect system? No. But also, people have been in residential monasteries ... or even married to folks ... and not known truly the heart of the teacher or other priests, or even their own spouse. So, no guarantees! However, as the months and years pass, the devils tend to show themself sooner or later. So do the angels.

This raises a deeper question:
Are practitioners expected to disclose personal ethical and compassionate conduct to you? If so, to what extent?
Is a kind of self-revelation necessary in this process? Are you looking for something akin to confession, like in a pastoral relationship? How much do you need to know about a person’s inner life or past to assess their readiness for transmission?

I hope folks are honest with me, and their behavior over the passing years says much. I suppose it is like my family members and good friends: I do not live with my in-laws and "old buddies," I do not know all their heart and thoughts ... but as the years pass, I know their quality.

2. You’ve said that people need to change themselves for Dharma Transmission—to become less bound by ignorance and more committed to the Way.
But how do you reconcile this with the core Buddhist teaching that all beings already possess Buddha-nature?

Doesn’t encouraging change risk reinforcing striving or a sense of inadequacy? How do you hold space for both radical acceptance and the need for transformation?

Suzuki Roshi famously said, "You are all perfect as you are, and you can use a lot of work." Master Dogen's "Continuous Practice-Enlightenment is based on this: We are all Buddha, yet we must manifest this in life act by act, word by word, thought by thought. One greedy act, and our "Buddhahood" is hidden again.

3. How do you account for prior practice in someone new to your community?

If someone has been practicing for many years before joining you, is their previous training recognized in any way? If you're assessing change as a criterion for empowerment, but most of that change happened before they arrived, you wouldn’t have a baseline for comparison. Would this mean you only consider the time a person has been practicing under your guidance? If so, does that imply that what came before is irrelevant?

I am not measuring anyone who comes here. That is a matter for their own heart. I do evaluate the priests I am training for roles of service, but that is not about how many hours they have clocked here or somewhere else.

Gassho, J
stlah