Curious about the training

[Ester]

Hi Ester,

I do not reject funerals. They bring families together, help with grief, honor the deceased. If someone asks, I will perform a funeral.

I also teach a message that there is something beyond "birth and death." Most Zen priests usually include that same message in their funerals, but it is often missed. When we recite the Heart Sutra during the funeral, for example, it expresses that all things are "not born not destroyed."

And yet, we die .. we grieve, we cry ... so funerals are valuable to bring comfort to the living.

Personally, I do not think that the chanting likely helps the dead person get a "better rebirth." But, it is harmless, and certainly does not hurt the dead person more.

There are some Japanese and western priests who help the dying and grieving. There are a few Zen hospice programs, which I think are wonderful. Here is one ...

https://zencaregiving.org/

And some priests in Japan place special emphasis on this too ...

https://jneb.net/activities/dyingcar/journey-through-dukkha1/journey-through-dukkha5/

Gassho, J
stlah

Thanks for clarifying and for the links

Gassho,
Ester
Satlah

[Benjamin Gieseke]

I’ll just add to what Jundo said that I’ve known a few Buddhist chaplains who work in hospitals, hospices, prisons, perform funerals, etc.. In the US to work as a chaplain one must be ordained in your tradition and have completed several units of what’s known as “Clinical Pastoral Education,” basically a chaplain intern (I completed a unit of this in seminary). All that to say, at least in the US if one wanted to serve (professionally) alongside the sick, dying, perform funerals, etc. as a Zen priest, one absolutely could. No idea what that looks like in Europe, but just wanted to share that it’s certainly done here!
Gassho,
Benjamin
SatLah

[Green Ben]

I’ll just add to what Jundo said that I’ve known a few Buddhist chaplains who work in hospitals, hospices, prisons, perform funerals, etc.. In the US to work as a chaplain one must be ordained in your tradition and have completed several units of what’s known as “Clinical Pastoral Education,” basically a chaplain intern (I completed a unit of this in seminary). All that to say, at least in the US if one wanted to serve (professionally) alongside the sick, dying, perform funerals, etc. as a Zen priest, one absolutely could. No idea what that looks like in Europe, but just wanted to share that it’s certainly done here!
Gassho,
Benjamin
SatLah

NY Zen Center has a Zen chaplain program, I'm looking at, as I feel called to work in prisons.

If this reality is heaven and hell all at once, then I reckon you're more likely to find hell in a prison; a target rich environment for sentient beings in need of liberation.

Likely be a year or two before I'm ready though.

Gassho

stlah

[Benjamin Gieseke]

NY Zen Center has a Zen chaplain program, I'm looking at, as I feel called to work in prisons.

If this reality is heaven and hell all at once, then I reckon you're more likely to find hell in a prison; a target rich environment for sentient beings in need of liberation.

Likely be a year or two before I'm ready though.

Gassho

stlah

I served as a chaplain in a prison, it was a powerful and formative experience. That being said, the American prison system is a unique kind of hell and the chaplains act mostly as an extension of the mental health care system. Chaplaincy can sound very romantic, the reality is often…hard. Nothing I say can prepare you for it, but know that is difficult, at times traumatic, but also deeply meaningful work. If you’d like to talk more I’m happy to share in a private message!

Gassho,
Benjamin
SatLah

[Shinshi]

NY Zen Center has a Zen chaplain program, I'm looking at, as I feel called to work in prisons.

If this reality is heaven and hell all at once, then I reckon you're more likely to find hell in a prison; a target rich environment for sentient beings in need of liberation.

Likely be a year or two before I'm ready though.

Gassho

stlah

I don't know where you are located but, just FYI, Upaya has one as well.

https://www.upaya.org/social-action/chaplaincy/

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[ZenJay]

Hello everyone,
I am greatly enjoying this thread, it is wonderful to learn about all of this! I had a question about the tools used during service, such as bells, the different types and when they are used and why? Also the other tools like the wood clackers (sorry, I don’t know what they’re called) for announcing the end of Kihin… the wood hit during chanting to keep the time (I’m not sure what it’s called either!)Are there reasons why certain bells/clackers are used at certain times?

Thank you!

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/lah today

[Kokuu]

Also the other tools like the wood clackers (sorry, I don’t know what they’re called) for announcing the end of Kihin… the wood hit during chanting to keep the time (I’m not sure what it’s called either!)Are there reasons why certain bells/clackers are used at certain times?

The wooden fish we hit during chanting is called a mokugyo. The clackers are called taku I believe.

Others may know better than me but it seems that the reason we use instruments at certain times and in certain patterns is that is the way it is traditionally done! So, I guess that given there is a standard way of doing things (although with some variation between sanghas) it is good to use that so that if people go to a different place to practice, the use of instruments is consistent so they have no problem to understand what is going on. Clearly bells and wooden percussion instruments also have different functions as regards rhythm and tone.

There is a much older thread on this which may be of interest: https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/tre...ruments-on-zen

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Ester]

I’ll just add to what Jundo said that I’ve known a few Buddhist chaplains who work in hospitals, hospices, prisons, perform funerals, etc.. In the US to work as a chaplain one must be ordained in your tradition and have completed several units of what’s known as “Clinical Pastoral Education,” basically a chaplain intern (I completed a unit of this in seminary). All that to say, at least in the US if one wanted to serve (professionally) alongside the sick, dying, perform funerals, etc. as a Zen priest, one absolutely could. No idea what that looks like in Europe, but just wanted to share that it’s certainly done here!
Gassho,
Benjamin
SatLah

How interesting.
I don't think chaplains exists in Western Europe. But I might be wrong. I'm curious, I'll do some research on it.

Edit: yes, they do exist and there are online trainings. St.Chat GTP, who knows everything just told me.
European Buddhist Chaplaincy: europeanbuddhistchaplaincy.org
Gassho,
Ester
Satlah
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[Ester]

NY Zen Center has a Zen chaplain program, I'm looking at, as I feel called to work in prisons.

If this reality is heaven and hell all at once, then I reckon you're more likely to find hell in a prison; a target rich environment for sentient beings in need of liberation.

Likely be a year or two before I'm ready though.

Gassho

stlah

Wow. This is really great. Please, let us know how is it if you finally enrol.
Gassho,
Ester
Satlah

[Jundo]

Hello everyone,
I am greatly enjoying this thread, it is wonderful to learn about all of this! I had a question about the tools used during service, such as bells, the different types and when they are used and why? Also the other tools like the wood clackers (sorry, I don’t know what they’re called) for announcing the end of Kihin… the wood hit during chanting to keep the time (I’m not sure what it’s called either!)Are there reasons why certain bells/clackers are used at certain times?

Thank you!

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/lah today

Here's more about Zen instruments than you ever need to know ...

https://terebess.hu/zen/szoto/hangszersz.html

Basically, instruments are for keeping time, and different ones are used so that there is no confusion. E.g, the metal "Unpan" means food is coming from the kitchen, the wooden Han is the call to come sit Zazen, the Mokygyo fish drum keeps the beat during chanting, etc. There is small variation in what is used, for example, to end Kinhin among Zen groups (in Japan too, not just the West) some will ring a bell to end Kinhin, some will use the wooden clappers.

The drums I played at the end are actually a clock, the equivalent to the bell in the church tower, and I rang 9:00. I ring 9:00 because that is about the time it is in Japan. 9 hits and a bell. A Zazenkai I attended for years at the Eiheiji Betsuin branch in Tokyo would end their sittings with the drum that way, at 9pm. It was lovely. They also recited Fukanzazengi in Japanese just before, so I borrowed from that.

A bit humorous: An automatic bell/drum clock at a temple in China. (I believe that it is signaling 2 O'clock):
.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Seiko]

Yes, they do exist.

Hi Ester,
Yes, I promise I exist.
I am a University Chaplain in England.

Gasshō
Seiko
stlah