question about which thoughts to let go of?

[Douglas]

I can't remember if I've asked this before in some way. It seems like I may have but couldn't find anything in my prior posts directly regarding this? If so, I'm grateful if you can point me to it

In Zazen we open the hand of thought, over and over both letting thoughts go but also, the open hand does not reject anything. It's open. BTW that last point, that the open hand neither grasps nor REJECTS. Is something that had not occurred to me!

The intention during Zazen seems clear, but during everyday life when we must decide which thoughts to act on and which not, well that isn't so much to me. In Zazen, all emotions and thoughts are welcome at the table and can come and go as they do, but we don't have to pour them any tea while at the table.

During everyday living when not sitting I must evaluate which thoughts merit tea and which don't.

Thank you for any insight!

Gassho,

-Doug

[Shujin]

Hi Doug,

You ask an important question. I think this is something that everyone struggles with from time to time. I'm just a priest in training, but for me the precepts are our guide for action. They point us in the right direction, like a compass. Even so, the the precepts don't have specific instructions for situations in our lives. There are many times in which I make a clumsy choice, or entertain an unhelpful thought. I try to do better in the next moment, and remind myself that no one gets its right all the time.

Gassho,
Shujin
st/lah

[Matt Johnson]

I can't remember if I've asked this before in some way. It seems like I may have but couldn't find anything in my prior posts directly regarding this? If so, I'm grateful if you can point me to it

In Zazen we open the hand of thought, over and over both letting thoughts go but also, the open hand does not reject anything. It's open. BTW that last point, that the open hand neither grasps nor REJECTS. Is something that had not occurred to me!

The intention during Zazen seems clear, but during everyday life when we must decide which thoughts to act on and which not, well that isn't so much to me. In Zazen, all emotions are thoughts are welcome at the table and can come and go as they do, but we don't have to pour them any tea while at the table.

During everyday living when not sitting I must evaluate which thoughts merit tea and which don't.

Thank you for any insight!

I'm a big proponent of the trial and error approach (otherwise known as "F around and find out"). Cause and effect being what it is, noticing what actions cause bad effects can give us an understanding of what thoughts cause bad actions... (and also notice the fact that we can have lots of crazy thoughts and not act on them).

The notion of good and bad is very specific to the individual. So no one can really tell you these things. But you can study them yourself both on and off the cushion.

Of course the precepts can act as guidelines to prevent you from effing around with the most serious things... This can save you a little bit of pain and time in jail if you know what I mean.

_/\_
sat/ah
matt

[Tairin]

No one is saying you need to cut off thoughts while not being on the cushion. I’d say that if you are looking at which thoughts to “invite to tea” perhaps the best approach is to be guided by the Precepts. Thoughts that are healthful and helpful are worth being with. Thoughts that invoke greed, anger, and ignorance are worth letting go of.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Jundo]

Hi,

I will echo what others have said.

During Zazen, we let ALL thoughts go, engaging and becoming tangled in as few as possible by just letting them pass like cars we do not get in, going for a ride.

Off the cushion, just think normally like anyone in life, but also avoid excess entanglements, obsessions, wallowing, and the poisonous thoughts of excess desire, anger, violence, jealousy and the like. One just develops the ability to recognize clinging, obsessed, wallowing or poisonous thoughts, as opposed to thoughts that are not so, and to step back from the harmful ones.

If it feels healthy, with a certain illumination and simplicity, it is good.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Douglas]

Hi,

I will echo what others have said.

During Zazen, we let ALL thoughts go, engaging and becoming tangled in as few as possible by just letting them pass like cars we do not get in, going for a ride.

Off the cushion, just think normally like anyone in life, but also avoid excess entanglements, obsessions, wallowing, and the poisonous thoughts of excess desire, anger, violence, jealousy and the like. One just develops the ability to recognize clinging, obsessed, wallowing or poisonous thoughts, as opposed to thoughts that are not so, and to step back from the harmful ones.

If it feels healthy, with a certain illumination and simplicity, it is good.

Gassho, J
stlah

Thanks Jundo!

That last part is certainly does make sense. It's kinda like what Pirsig says in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle maintenance" about Quality (or Tao), that you can recognize it but how you recognize it is not really explainable (or what Quality/Tao really is). You just recognize it. Maybe the decision of when to act on a thought is like that. You'll just know.

Gassho, Doug

[Douglas]

Hi Doug,

You ask an important question. I think this is something that everyone struggles with from time to time. I'm just a priest in training, but for me the precepts are our guide for action. They point us in the right direction, like a compass. Even so, the the precepts don't have specific instructions for situations in our lives. There are many times in which I make a clumsy choice, or entertain an unhelpful thought. I try to do better in the next moment, and remind myself that no one gets its right all the time.

Gassho,
Shujin
st/lah

Hi Shulin,

Thanks! Is interesting you mentioned the precepts. I was listening today to the Boulder Zen Center's podcast because some of them were taking the precepts.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/61PzRKr4sGpYQhvgWSOYxO?si=RDoDECWSTFm3eQhJ9rMHng

I can see how using the precepts can be a guide (but still be flexible)

Gassho, Doug