Zen Reading of the Pali Canon

[Tai Do]

I've been reading the Dhammapada and some connected Suttas (on the notes) translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu on dhammatalks.org. As I read, I find many ideas go very well with our Zen practice, but others I can't find a direct connection. Does anyone know of resources or suggestions (books, web pages, or simply some technique or insight you want to share) for a Zen reading of the Pali Canon or how to reads the Suttas with a Zen outlook, instead of a Theravada one?
Gassho,
Tai Do
Satlah

[Tom A.]

Zen Reading of the Pali Canon

Check out "breath by breath" by Larry Rosenberg. It is about the anapanasati sutta. In the introduction he says the book and sutta can be read by Zen practitioners not as a goal to achieve, but as a description of what might be happening moment to moment, and I'm pretty sure Larry studied with a Soto Zen teacher (Katagiri) for 8 years as well.

“Mindfulness and intimacy” by Ben Connelly: Theravada mindfulness contrasted with Soto Zen (the “intimacy” part of the title) As long as you avoid conflating mindfulness with our Shikantaza zazen and practice them separately, it is a very good book.

Also, I remember Jundo saying that Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translations of the suttas are very good but that Jundo doesn’t much care for the commentaries. Maybe read the suttas by themselves and let them sink in without analyzing it too much would be the zen way(?)

(Sorry for running long)



Gassho,
Tom

Satlah

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[Jundo]

Also, I remember Jundo saying that Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translations of the suttas are very good but that Jundo doesn’t much care for the commentaries. Maybe read the suttas by themselves and let them sink in without analyzing it too much would be the zen way(?)

Hah! I was just about to say that again! Thank you. It is not that I don't "care much for the commentaries," but that they are an interpretation by one particular sect and tradition (to be honored as such), but I do not find that the Suttas themselves necessarily have to be read such way. I find many of the old Suttas, on their own if just read, very harmonious with Zen practice. The Theravadan commentarial tradition changed many approaches to Teachings, meditation (making them more into intense concentration exercises under Brahmin influence, something the Buddha had originally rejected), etc. Also, they were compiled at different times by different people so that, while many of the basic Teachings are completely harmonious with Zen practice (e.g., Dukkha, Non-Self, Impermanence), others were added after as additions and interpretations, and sometimes conflict even among themselves. Others, such as Teachings on rebirth, can be interpreted many ways.

A very good introduction to the old Suttas (if you separate that from the Theravadan commentary in the Appendix) is this:

IN THE BUDDHA’S WORDS
An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon

https://wisdomexperience.org/product/buddhas-words/

As to changes in the interpretation of meditation, I often refer to this book ...

The Experience of Samadhi:
An In-depth Exploration of Buddhist Meditation

https://www.shambhala.com/the-experience-of-samadhi-580.html

Mr. Shankman explains the differences between meditation as found in the old Suttas, and then as changed in the commentaries. The former is closer to our ways.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Tai Do]

Thank you very much, Tom and Jundo. I also got the impression the Buddha’s meditation was closer to zazen than the analytical Theravada commentaries made it sound.

Tai Do
Satlah

[Kokuu]

Hi Tai Do

I really like the Pali Canon and enjoy reading it for its own sake. I like the Satipatthana Sutta (Sutra on the Four Foundations of Mindfulness) that Larry Rosenberg and others talk about (Thich Nhat Hahn wrote a commentary too called Transformation and Healing) but it is more of a stepwise approach than Shikantaza, although not unhelpful.

I found Walpola Rahula's book Zen and the Taming of the Bull interesting as he writes a number of essays in there which compare Mahayana and Theravada approaches, finding them to be more complementary than contradictory.

Domyo Burk talks about a number of Pali suttas in her Zen Studies podcast:

Twelve Pali Canon Suttas Every Buddhist Should Know (part one)
Twelve Pali Canon Suttas Every Buddhist Should Know (part two)
Twelve Pali Canon Suttas Every Buddhist Should Know (part three)

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Shinkon]

When working with the Pali canon, I sometimes use a method that I borrowed from the Roman Catholics called lectio divina. The Roman Catholic method is: Prepare (para), Read (lectio), Reflect (meditatio), Write (oratio), and Contemplate (contemplatio). My applied method is: Prepare: gather materials and zazen; Read: read the sutra without pausing and diggine; Reflect: zazen; Write: write not only a reflection but questions and terms/phrases that need researching; and Contemplate: rest is usually added by the RC tradition here, but I put all the materials away and straighten the space - at least a few hours later, I revisit the sutra and what I wrote.
Again, I do not do this all the time just when I need to. I hope this method can help in Pali Sutta study.
Joe
sat

[Jundo]

When working with the Pali canon, I sometimes use a method that I borrowed from the Roman Catholics called lectio divina. The Roman Catholic method is: Prepare (para), Read (lectio), Reflect (meditatio), Write (oratio), and Contemplate (contemplatio). My applied method is: Prepare: gather materials and zazen; Read: read the sutra without pausing and diggine; Reflect: zazen; Write: write not only a reflection but questions and terms/phrases that need researching; and Contemplate: rest is usually added by the RC tradition here, but I put all the materials away and straighten the space - at least a few hours later, I revisit the sutra and what I wrote.
Again, I do not do this all the time just when I need to. I hope this method can help in Pali Sutta study.
Joe
sat

That is good, but of course, Zazen is the reflection of no reflection. One might say that one becomes the mirror and the light, with nothing apart to be reflected. Nothing to write, nothing more to say during Zazen.

When we read, we read the Sutras lightly, not getting caught in intellectualizing and the tangles of philosophizing ... feeling the Wisdom and Compassion at their heart and root, but not lost in ideas and debates ...

... then we burn the Sutras ... sit Zazen (Zazen is the Sutra embodied) ... then perhaps, after Zazen, might reconstitute the ashes and repeat, should we wish.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Shinkon]

Yes, getting caught in intellectualizing is a trap. Zazen and our practice is key to that I developed a few years ago. One thing that I do now is that no notes are kept, just recycled (otherwise I’d have a bunch of those old-style comp books around). I forgot to add that in.
Thanks for the reminder.
Gassho,
Shinkon
stlah

[Tai Do]

Thank you for the suggestions, Kokuu. I finished the suggested episodes and found them really helpful. I will read the suggested suttas.
Gassho,
Tai Do
Satlah

[Tai Do]

Thank you, Shinkon and Jundo.
I like the practice of reading the suttas/sutras and them sit zazen.
Sometimes reflecting is good to see our lives through the Dharma’s eyes. I find journaling some days to be a good practice in this reflection; I never did it after reading suttas, but I do after reading some Zen or Buddhist books.
Gassho,
Tai Do
Satlah

[Tom A.]

Reading is important and thinking is important, although I have been an over thinker in the past. What works for me is that whenever I read something, I keep in the back of the mind that a million words can be said but they will never equal even a second of actual lived experience, and that experiences are experienced through thoughts but also beyond thoughts.

Gassho,
Tom

SatLah

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