Enough is Enough

[Jundo]

Not to be political, but enough is enough. Truly, we should have a better balance in this world, with too few having much too much, while too many have no where enough for even the basics of life. It need not be this extreme.
.

https://us.cnn.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-new-pay-package

I am reminded of this cartoon (thank you for first posting, Chris) ...

adv1.jpg


Gassho, J
stlah

[Seiga]

Completely absurd.

seiga
satlah

[Dainei]

Beginningless greed . . .

Gassho
Dainei
SatLah

[MalleableGirlParts]

*biting my lip*

[Heishi]

An interesting test? The article doesn't say that Elon's been given the money for no reason. It does say that he has to provide a certain amount of value at Tesla and stay focused. I look forward to having a truly fully self driving car, a robot to handle some dangerous chores in my old age like weed eating on my 35 degree slope, having good internet anywhere in the wolrd, or having a spaceship to Mars. I've always been a little puzzled in many Sanghas with members thinking that if person that is money rich, and maybe successful in business, that person is automatically greedy--and somehow karma is a zero sum game. I don't think our sense of joy in life is necessarily linked to denigrating someone who is rich and successful. Also, I don't know but it's possible that Elon also gives money to charities. Perhaps he lends a hand to people and we don't know about it. Elon may not even meet the valuation needed to get the extra shares. I agree that somehow a better balance of goods and services is important and when we can, to help others....but there's always a person who has the most money in the world.

Thank you for listening.
Gassho,
Katherine
satlah

[Mujin]

An interesting test? The article doesn't say that Elon's been given the money for no reason. It does say that he has to provide a certain amount of value at Tesla and stay focused. I look forward to having a truly fully self driving car, a robot to handle some dangerous chores in my old age like weed eating on my 35 degree slope, having good internet anywhere in the wolrd, or having a spaceship to Mars. I've always been a little puzzled in many Sanghas with members thinking that if person that is money rich, and maybe successful in business, that person is automatically greedy--and somehow karma is a zero sum game. I don't think our sense of joy in life is necessarily linked to denigrating someone who is rich and successful. Also, I don't know but it's possible that Elon also gives money to charities. Perhaps he lends a hand to people and we don't know about it. Elon may not even meet the valuation needed to get the extra shares. I agree that somehow a better balance of goods and services is important and when we can, to help others....but there's always a person who has the most money in the world.

Thank you for listening.
Gassho,
Katherine
satlah

You are 100% spot on here. There are others who make ridiculous amounts of money with less contribution to society, yet depending on their political affiliation, they get a pass.

Gassho,

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

[Jundo]

You are 100% spot on here. There are others who make ridiculous amounts of money with less contribution to society, yet depending on their political affiliation, they get a pass.

Gassho,

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

Oh, that is not the case. It was the word "trillionaire" that caught my eye, and even "billionaire" is a concern whether the name is Soros or Bezos, Cuban or Walton. The issue is the disproportionate power and influence that results, and the irony that the "trillionaire" is also the same citizen who cut off aid to the world's poorest and most vulnerable (granted, the organization and system of support is imperfect and in need of reform) which may be resulting, by independent third party estimates, in perhaps 300,000+ deaths so far, and possibly 15 million deaths by 2030, from disease and hunger, plus stunted children from causes ranging from polio to sheer malnutrition. LINK, LINK and LINK.

My only concern is from the perspective of the Precepts, which guide us to preserve life, and from the simple moral wish not to see children starve or suffer from disease.

I do not know if Elon "gives money to charities [and] lends a hand to people we don't know about." I hope so, and I also like his robots. However, the problem is the radically disparate political influence (left or right or middle) which that much money brings, the power to own and manipulate the media, to influence politicians to make laws (e.g., exemptions from environmental regulations) which benefit their personal interests at the expense of other people, and a hoarding of wealth while others do not have enough (with our wealthiest individuals paying taxes at rates far below what is merited LINK), while we are cutting the social safety net for the hungry and homeless. This results measurably in deaths and disease, wars and social instability, not to mention degradation of the planet's environment (thus more death and disease.)

It is very simple. I cannot trust that Mrrs. Musk and Soros, Bezos, Cuban and Walton do " give money to charities [and] lend a hand to people." I hope so. But the record of history is not so optimistic and rose colored on the generous use of resources and power by those who have so much in share, from kings and warlords, to oil robber-barons and the Sackler family. That is why we have taxes and checks on media ownership and political donations, environmental laws which apply to all and the like (or, better said, we should but do not.)

Why? Children's lives are at stake.

Gassho, Jundo
sattoday

[Tairin]

My opinion is that no one, not even the person that finally cures cancer, deserves to be that wealthy while so many people have so little.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Jundo]

I added a few words to what I wrote two comments above ...

... But the record of history is not so optimistic and rose colored on the generous use of resources and power by those who have so much in share, from kings and warlords, to oil robber-barons and the Sackler family.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Kojitsu]

This is a tough one to not get all that political...

That being said, when the richest among us take from the poorest of us, and have tricked those that are the ones they take from into thinking it's good, we have a severe problem as a society.

st/lah
gassho
kojitsu

[Chikyou]

This is a tough one to not get all that political...

That being said, when the richest among us take from the poorest of us, and have tricked those that are the ones they take from into thinking it's good, we have a severe problem as a society.

st/lah
gassho
kojitsu

I agree.

My sincere belief is that it’s impossible to amass so much money and resources without some level of greed, and probably, a whole lot of greed. Unless you happen to have been born with a platinum spoon in your mouth (in which case, it’s simply not YOUR greed, but someone’s to amass all that for you), it’s not possible to gain that much money (and continue to hoard it) without exploiting others. Our society pushes the idea that some people have earned the right to exploit others, and the only way out is to earn the right to be the one doing the exploiting.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[Hoseki]

You are 100% spot on here. There are others who make ridiculous amounts of money with less contribution to society, yet depending on their political affiliation, they get a pass.

Gassho,

Mujin

SatTodayLAH

Hey,

I also don't think others get a pass because of political affiliation, at least not for people with a concern about wealth inequality. Musk is a kind of stand in or personification of these concerns. He gets picked as an example not just because of his wealth or politics but because he's one of the wealthiest people on the planet and he consistently inserts himself in the public eye in ways that are almost guaranteed to provoke anger and frustration. He's also been injecting himself into the politics of other nations which again will be divisive. He's put the spotlight on himself.

I hope I'm not beleaguering Jundo's point, but it's not about Musk, or Bezos or Gates or Soros. Nor is it about fairness or justice. It's about the concentration of power and resources in the hands of a few and what that means for everyone, the wealthy included. These kinds of wealth gaps often proceed big, often ugly, changes for their respective societies.

I honestly think most people wouldn't really care that much if someone had substantially more money than them. But when that translates into a lower living standard or social programs one needs to survive are cut because said wealthy people want lower taxes then it's personal. It's directly affecting their ability to function. Because these people have such wealth and power those few people can strongly influence things like the tax code so they benefit them further. This act further enriches the wealthy while impoverishing a good chunk of the rest of the people. So these people create a virtuous circle for power and wealth. As they get wealthier they get more and more control of the government through things like campaign donations. Or they can pay people to lobby for their particular issues. The super wealthy, can also influence public opinion through owning news papers and media outlets. They don't have to even directly intervene in the running of the media. They just get people who already agree with them to run the place and all of a sudden the editorials reflect the views of the owner. Musk owns X/Twitter and had made changes to that platform's moderation. Whether or not those changes are good doesn't really matter. It's one person whose able to make changes in what everyone sees when they open that app. It's the same thing with Facebook or Google. If they control the algorithms that provide us content they can nudge one way or the other without much fanfare. We know anger increases engagement and they require our engagement to sell ads. So the algorithm pushes things that make us angry. It's a kind of it leads it bleeds type of thing.

People like Musk claim they are just a person like everyone else and that's true (pants one leg at a time kind of thing). But it's also true that unlike me or you he can send a message to millions of people without a thought. Or he can take out ads for a particular causes he likes or can reach out to politicians to offer campaign contributions if they share the same views. That kind of money can take someone from obscurity to the public consciousness pretty quickly. Or he can hire lobbyists, whose whole job is to wine and dine people to sway them to support a particular issue such as lower taxes or laxer immigration.

Anyway, the issue is systemic and the particular individuals don't matter. If Musk climbed into a rocket ship for Mars tomorrow these problems would still exist. Even if they were pushing for things one liked I think we can still see the danger in one person having that kind of power.

Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday/lah

[Chikyou]

Well said Hoseki.

Gassho,
SatLah,
Chikyō

[ssalamena]

Oh, that is not the case. It was the word "trillionaire" that caught my eye, and even "billionaire" is a concern whether the name is Soros or Bezos, Cuban or Walton. The issue is the disproportionate power and influence that results, and the irony that the "trillionaire" is also the same citizen who cut off aid to the world's poorest and most vulnerable (granted, the organization and system of support is imperfect and in need of reform) which may be resulting, by independent third party estimates, in perhaps 300,000+ deaths so far, and possibly 15 million deaths by 2030, from disease and hunger, plus stunted children from causes ranging from polio to sheer malnutrition. LINK, LINK and LINK.

My only concern is from the perspective of the Precepts, which guide us to preserve life, and from the simple moral wish not to see children starve or suffer from disease.

I do not know if Elon "gives money to charities [and] lends a hand to people we don't know about." I hope so, and I also like his robots. However, the problem is the radically disparate political influence (left or right or middle) which that much money brings, the power to own and manipulate the media, to influence politicians to make laws (e.g., exemptions from environmental regulations) which benefit their personal interests at the expense of other people, and a hoarding of wealth while others do not have enough (with our wealthiest individuals paying taxes at rates far below what is merited LINK), while we are cutting the social safety net for the hungry and homeless. This results measurably in deaths and disease, wars and social instability, not to mention degradation of the planet's environment (thus more death and disease.)

It is very simple. I cannot trust that Mrrs. Musk and Soros, Bezos, Cuban and Walton do " give money to charities [and] lend a hand to people." I hope so. But the record of history is not so optimistic and rose colored on the generous use of resources and power by those who have so much in share, from kings and warlords, to oil robber-barons and the Sackler family. That is why we have taxes and checks on media ownership and political donations, environmental laws which apply to all and the like (or, better said, we should but do not.)

Why? Children's lives are at stake.

Gassho, Jundo
sattoday

Thank you Jundo.
I always avoid mixing Buddhism with politics, HOWEVER of course enough is enough. Any religion I know says this, because wisdom is universal.
The point is that we need to be mindful of the precepts, which helps us to see how Dukkha arises in the mind.
Comfort and enjoying stuff we like is not the goal, liberation is. The Buddha was right

Gassho
Stefano
Sat/lah