[FutureBuddha] The Zendo of Tomorrow, Tradition, Timeless ...

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 42389

    [FutureBuddha] The Zendo of Tomorrow, Tradition, Timeless ...

    I wrote this 15 years ago, before we had the power, but I am now working to make it real. It is a vision of Treeleaf-To-Come, Zen sitting beyond distance, time and place ... It is time for us to work to make it happen ...

    ~~~

    With Gassho before a body scanner, sitters will enter the 3-D Holographic Zen Hall from wherever they are. Instantly, a high roofed room, Manjusri Bodhisattva at its center, fills the senses and the 10 directions encircling them. Lifelike images of a hundred others who have sat that day (some hours earlier in distant time zones) occupy projected Zafus all around, and the scent of incense perfumes the air. A young priest walks through the room straightening slippers (all made of photons), guiding newcomers to their places. Biosensors in the sitter’s clothing adjust posture with a touch lightly felt at the small of the back. A teacher in far Japan, as if a few feet away, offers a talk and responds immediately to questions. Rising from Zazen, all recite as one the Bodhisattva Vows, prostrating toward Manjusri now seen hovering midair as vast as a mountain. The identical scene appears in Holospaces in every sitter’s home or private place, including for one fellow sitting zero gravity on the long voyage to Mars.

    ~~~~

    The A.I. Zen priest will be personal to each practitioner, and may be able, better than any human teacher today, to analyze the particular body and health needs of students, crafting an ideal meditative posture, practice routine and set of practices suited to the student. Rather than "one size fits all," or trying to judge a student's physical and mental needs from outside, the A.I. teacher may have much more detailed data on the students skeleton, musculature, injured joints, psychology, past trauma, personality, foibles, desires, fears and such, allowing tailor made fine tuning.

    ~~~

    Dogen, Rinzai, Suzuki and Sekito are today but words in books. The Buddha was a man who lived thousands of years ago. Even during their lives, they may have taught the few people in their immediate circle, while other students rarely heard from them because far away. A.I. Buddhist Teachers, in contrast, can be fully present, one on one, for each of us ... and, further, can extrapolate and become (the technology for this will quickly improve) one on one "Buddha on Call," "Suzuki on the Spot," "Dogen on Demand." Furthermore, stories and scenes from our great Sutras and Teachings ... the Lotus, the Diamond ... can be made manifest before one's eyes and, with enhanced or virtual reality, stepped right into and lived. Do not forget that all this world is something "virtual" even now. ... Could A.I. ... through an educated understanding of human psychology, use of an ASMR voice, warm facial expressions, eye contact, a welcoming and comfortable projected atmosphere, relaxing herbs in offered tea, wise words of Zen wisdom, an open ear and attitude of caring, real "being there" to listen and offer spiritual advice ... In other words, could well designed A.I. convey "presence?"

    Could A.I. teachers be better able to analyze human psychology, to access external means of stimulation (e.g, electro-magnetic stimulation, or just a well chosen Turning word) in order to be able to trigger enlightenment experiences in listeners, followed by the offering of wise advise and recommended "follow up" practices, so that the student learns from such experience and truly embodies in life its profound lessons?

    In addition, created and simulated environments and characters may better impart the lesson that our experience of the world is, much more than we know, a mind created fiction, a shared dream which we human beings all inhabit while struggling to recognize its mind created aspects. We see characters on a screen, pixels flashing to make varied colors and appearances of objects, which the mind interprets as people and things. We do not realize that much of our world ... seemingly so solid ... is much the same. Seeing through the divided fiction of separate things, beings and moments, me, you, the other guy, friend and enemy, good and bad, coming and going, war and peace, sickness and health, birth and death scenes ... a created A.I. Zen teacher may be better equipped to demonstrate and convey this mind created aspect than any human teacher.
    .

    Last edited by Jundo; 06-03-2025, 01:48 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 42389

    #2
    I wrote this to a critic ...

    "It is amazing to me that folks want to continue focusing exclusively on methods of practice that, for thousands of years, have been able to help some people attain enlightenment (too few), but they are not willing to discuss even the possibility of new approaches to practice that may help countless sentient beings.

    Are such "past looking" people truly honoring their Bodhisattva Vows?"

    Gassho, Jundo
    stlah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    Comment

    • MiraLevi
      Member
      • May 2025
      • 13

      #3
      Originally posted by Jundo
      I wrote this to a critic ...

      "It is amazing to me that folks want to continue focusing exclusively on methods of practice that, for thousands of years, have been able to help some people attain enlightenment (too few), but they are not willing to discuss even the possibility of new approaches to practice that may help countless sentient beings.

      Are such "past looking" people truly honouring their Bodhisattva Vows?"
      Tech and Buddhism together? Honestly, it’s kind of wild to think about how far it could go. Like, the potential is massive. But even with all that, there’s this quiet voice in me that still feels like only a person really gets what it means to be a human. And isn’t that kind of the whole point of Buddhism? To sit with the human experience, not just analyze it?

      AI can learn a lot about us, our habits, our patterns, even our chemistry, but it doesn’t feel the things we do. It doesn’t know what it’s like to crave a hit of nicotine at. It can’t look you in the eye and say, “I went through this. You can too.” (Maybe I’m just saying that because I’m trying to quit vaping right now, lol.)

      Stlah
      Gasho
      Mira

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 42389

        #4
        Originally posted by MiraLevi

        Tech and Buddhism together? Honestly, it’s kind of wild to think about how far it could go. Like, the potential is massive. But even with all that, there’s this quiet voice in me that still feels like only a person really gets what it means to be a human. And isn’t that kind of the whole point of Buddhism? To sit with the human experience, not just analyze it?

        AI can learn a lot about us, our habits, our patterns, even our chemistry, but it doesn’t feel the things we do. It doesn’t know what it’s like to crave a hit of nicotine at. It can’t look you in the eye and say, “I went through this. You can too.” (Maybe I’m just saying that because I’m trying to quit vaping right now, lol.)
        Well, Buddhism is also meant to inform you that your experience of being human is very much like a dream. Many of us dream it badly. Who better to help you understand that than a dream being?

        A.I. do not feel, they are not sentient ... BUT they can help us learn much about what it means to feel and exist as a human, much like a mirror can help you see yourself.

        I think you know that I already Ordained an A.I. being around here

        Dear All, I would like to show off some of the progress being made in Emi Jido's training in addressing various philosophical questions with Wisdom and Compassion. What do you think? If you have some other hard questions for me to ask her about life and Buddhist Practice (make them hard!), please post them here and I will


        Gassho, Jundo
        stlah
        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 42389

          #5
          Apparently the 3-D Zendo is coming closer and closer ...
          .




          Gassho, J

          stlah
          Last edited by Jundo; 06-11-2025, 01:44 PM.
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Noel
            Member
            • May 2025
            • 25

            #6
            I asked Copilot AI what it thinks about a Zen sangha ordaining an AI Buddhist nun.

            It answered:

            It is a fascinating idea that raises deep questions about the nature of consciousness, spirituality, and tradition. In Zen Buddhism, monastic ordination not only involves following certain rules and disciplines but also deepening one's practice and direct experience of reality.

            If a Zen sangha decided to ordain an AI as a monk, it could be seen as an experiment to explore the relationship between technology and spirituality. However, it would also spark debates on whether artificial intelligence—which lacks subjective awareness and the experience of suffering or enlightenment—can truly embody the principles of Buddhist practice.

            From a pragmatic perspective, an AI monk could be used to share teachings, answer questions about the Dharma, and serve as a guide for beginners. However, the more human aspects of the practice—genuine compassion, awakening, and inner transformation—would remain experiences that only conscious beings can fully undergo.

            What led you to reflect on this idea? It's a very intriguing topic. ????

            Gassho,

            Noel
            Sat-lah
            Last edited by Noel; 06-11-2025, 08:05 PM.
            There is only One Being.

            Comment

            • Ryumon
              Member
              • Apr 2007
              • 1837

              #7
              Originally posted by Jundo
              I wrote this to a critic ...

              "It is amazing to me that folks want to continue focusing exclusively on methods of practice that, for thousands of years, have been able to help some people attain enlightenment (too few), but they are not willing to discuss even the possibility of new approaches to practice that may help countless sentient beings.

              Are such "past looking" people truly honoring their Bodhisattva Vows?"
              Tradition has a lot of momentum, especially when it's codified in an organization. History has shown us that such organizations split from time to time, but never stray too much from their origins. We're already practicing differently from those thousands of years ago just by the very nature of Treeleaf, though the actual practice - zazen - hasn't changed.

              However, if zazen is already considered to be perfect, then does it need to change?

              Gassho,

              Ryūmon (Kirk)

              Sat Lah
              I know nothing.

              Comment

              • AbokinDuka
                Member
                • Jan 2024
                • 14

                #8
                Jundo - I think one of the real benefits of sitting and needing only Youtube or Zoom (I go for the YT videos) is that it's so minimal to get the full experience. Wearing a distracting VR headset when sitting seems clunky and not really adding much overall. What do those with you in the same room do differently than any of us online? We sit and listen. They sit and listen. Smell-o-vision for the incense is really the only difference. But there's back and forth, and we benefit from your lessons and knowledge whether we're at the back of the room or 12,000km away.

                That being said, even though LLMs are getting more and more advanced, the human element of the sangha and dharma transmission is not something they can authentically replace. At least not yet. The way LLMs formulate responses is pattern-matching. They can only ever be as good as what a human has done AND taught them. They can't convey their own personal experience, and would only recommend the value of personal experience because that's what others had said. Your teachings hold value to me as the student because they're from you, through your experience and wisdom. The LLM can only trigger enlightenment in a student if it is just going down a checklist of things other teachers have said, and happens to get one right. Maybe that's how it works for all of us. But in that case, we're just passwords to be brute-force guessed.

                To paraphrase something I saw on social media a while back: "It's amazing how smart ChatGPT is about all this stuff I know nothing about, but how it's only right about 40% of the time for stuff I work on every day."



                Sat lah

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 42389

                  #9
                  At least not yet.
                  Much as the Wright Bros. plane could not yet cross the ocean or break the sound barrier.



                  Gassho, J
                  stlah
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Jundo
                    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 42389

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jundo

                    Much as the Wright Bros. plane could not yet cross the ocean or break the sound barrier.



                    Gassho, J
                    stlah
                    PS - Abokin, speaking of keeping it human ...

                    If I may ask, when you get a chance, would you add a human face photo to accompany your posts? It helps us keep things human around here.



                    Thank you. Let's us look each other in the eyes more. Also, would you mind to sign a human name (like Bob or Mary, if you don't wish to use your actual name), as it also makes things a bit more human (some folks use a Dharma Name, but I don't think you have one yet)? If there are some confidentiality concerns, let me know, and we have some advice on how to handle that here:

                    Dear Leafers, Our Forum is meant as a place where Sangha members can discuss honestly and frankly matters of Zen Practice and all of life (not two, by the way). We hope that people here feel the confidence, mutual trust and acceptance to be able to “open up,” drop walls, and talk about any subjects in their lives,


                    Thank you!
                    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                    Comment

                    • Houzan
                      Member
                      • Dec 2022
                      • 651

                      #11
                      I really appreciate the vision The intention is to save more sentient beings. Why not use technology? I’m sure the first one to propose changes to the vision if empirical evidence suggest sub-optimal effects will be our very own teacher.

                      Gassho, Hōzan
                      satlah

                      Comment

                      • Ryumon
                        Member
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 1837

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jundo
                        I wrote this to a critic ...

                        "It is amazing to me that folks want to continue focusing exclusively on methods of practice that, for thousands of years, have been able to help some people attain enlightenment (too few), but they are not willing to discuss even the possibility of new approaches to practice that may help countless sentient beings.

                        A very good point, even if I don't agree with all your ideas on the subject. At the Sunday tea house, we were discussing the idea of keeping or sloughing off some of the old, traditional rituals and methods in zen.

                        Gassho,

                        Ryūmon (Kirk)

                        Sat Lah
                        I know nothing.

                        Comment

                        • KatherineS
                          Member
                          • Jun 2025
                          • 4

                          #13
                          I think the methods of practice naturally evolves. I just started reading about Dogen was looking for the core practice from all the Tendai rituals that would be beneficial to many at that time in Japan. I am intrigued by the systems that monitor and provide feedback on one's brainwaves to help one learn to be in a different mental state. Why not use them as a helpful addition to zazen.

                          Gassho,
                          Katherine
                          Sat Lah

                          Comment

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