[FutureBuddha] Buddhist Precepts for A.I.

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40688

    #16
    I never said that A.I. are perfect or will fix human imperfection. I said that they are more logical, trustworthy and reliable than human beings if properly guardrailed. For example, who would you prefer to inspect your nuclear reactors?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-21/inspections-allegedly-faked-at-southern-s-nuclear-power-plant

    Who would you trust to read your blood test?

    Five years ago, Massachusetts drug lab chemist Annie Dookhan was caught faking results. That led to Tuesday's dismissal of over 21,000 convictions.


    Who would you even trust to drive your car (once they tighten up "self-driving" vehicles. By the way, I do not know why nobody adopts my solution of thin fiber optic "tracks" implanted down all public roads which the cars are obligated to follow perfectly, with their technology concentrating primarily on anti-collision measures rather than steering and driving skills, e.g., stopping if a child or some other obstacle darts into the road, with humans having the ability to override and take control if needed. Humans can regain control off of main public roads, in parking lots and the like. Our highways could be laid with these cables and cars would run like trainlines from on-ramp to destination off-ramp, but also in many city streets where non-self-driving cars would be forbidden or limited to certain lanes and areas.)

    A BUS driver who fell asleep at the wheel has been jailed after plunging from a bridge into a river killing seven people. Dramatic footage shows the bus smashing into two cars and a safety barrier …


    And what is wrong with a combination of AI with human supervision? I want my medical tests to be read by AI and human eyes.

    As to "inaction" that may cause a human death, the system could alert a human who could override its inaction. Human intervention will be needed only until we know that the systems are more reliable than humans. For example, there were 48,000 bus crashes in the USA in 2021, with about 200 lives lost in 2024 (LINK) If, after a few years, it is shown that AI operated busses only result in, for example, 10% as many crashes and deaths, we can allow them to be more fully autonomous. Airplanes are the same now, and it is possible that soon we will be down to a single pilot on board, and perhaps someday, no pilot but someone on the ground who could take control at a distance if needed.

    Gassho, J
    stlah
    Last edited by Jundo; 12-19-2024, 12:37 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    Comment

    • Matt Johnson
      Member
      • Jun 2024
      • 500

      #17
      But we cannot trust that ai will follow any guardrails we provide (or assure ourselves that following them wont lead to further amplified negative consequences).

      The price of embedding ai in everything and getting it wrong could likely be the end of the human race as we know it.

      The price of not rolling out ai into everything is just more of the same crap.

      Better the devil you know than the devil you don't...

      「古い友は新しい友にまさる」 (Furui tomo wa atarashii tomo ni masaru)

      _/\_
      sat/ah
      matt

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 40688

        #18
        Originally posted by Matt Johnson
        But we cannot trust that ai will follow any guardrails we provide (or assure ourselves that following them wont lead to further amplified negative consequences).

        The price of embedding ai in everything and getting it wrong could likely be the end of the human race as we know it.

        The price of not rolling out ai into everything is just more of the same crap.

        Better the devil you know than the devil you don't...

        「古い友は新しい友にまさる」 (Furui tomo wa atarashii tomo ni masaru)

        _/\_
        sat/ah
        matt
        Oh, I agree with you almost 100% (I actually do trust AI more than human beings for SOME tasks.) I just heard this expert yesterday, on the much more pessimistic side. I have to agree with him about all the risks and dark possibilities (by the way, this entire interview series is good).
        .

        .
        I have to agree with him that, ideally, we should slow way way down. Stop many projects completely. I wish that I had the power. All I can do is join the voices of concern. The Precepts project is an attempt to say that our A.I. system should not fall short of these moral standards.
        .
        On a good note (truly) from my latest book, I happen to suspect and see strong evidence that the universe may require or trend toward sentience like ours in some way, so would likely develop that again (and probably already has many places in this vast universe) even without us. So, even without us, somebody will get it right. All things are impermanent, after all, and come in cycles for us Buddhists.

        Gassho, J
        stlah

        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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        • Kaitan
          Member
          • Mar 2023
          • 562

          #19
          Has anyone read the Book 'Nexus' from Yuval Noah Harari? I was curious what he can say about AI, it might be related to this discussion.



          stlah, Kaitan
          Kaitan - 界探 - Realm searcher

          Comment

          • Matt Johnson
            Member
            • Jun 2024
            • 500

            #20
            Originally posted by Kaitan
            Has anyone read the Book 'Nexus' from Yuval Noah Harari? I was curious what he can say about AI, it might be related to this discussion.



            stlah, Kaitan
            Oh my God, I'm just reading it now... I bought yesterday and I'm about quarter of the way through.... He's brilliant...

            Also a section that is a very good primer on Zionism for anyone who's curious... (obviously influenced by recent events)

            Also very good section on how bureaucracy silos knowledge.

            And a interesting section about Bureaucrats in general (Vogons for fans of HHGTTG)

            Fratricide and its role in evolution Jundo might be interested in this due to his recent chapter on evolution.

            Geeze this guy hits it all... This is what happens when people study things for the sake of studying them in an interdisciplinary mammer as opposed to studying to get a high paying job....

            Matt
            Last edited by Matt Johnson; 12-20-2024, 02:39 PM.

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            • Matt Johnson
              Member
              • Jun 2024
              • 500

              #21
              Originally posted by Jundo

              after all, and come in cycles for us Buddhists.

              Gassho, J
              stlah
              Ill stop bugging you... I find myself oscillating wildly between being anthropocentric and being transhumanist.... It's kind of the same way I feel about our climate issues... Sometimes I want to make everything slow down so that we can preserve human life on Earth.... and other times I realise that the Earth doesn't need us and will go on long after we are gone if we make human life in its current form impossible...

              _/\_
              sat/ah
              matt

              Comment

              • Kaitan
                Member
                • Mar 2023
                • 562

                #22
                Originally posted by Matt Johnson

                Ill stop bugging you... I find myself oscillating wildly between being anthropocentric and being transhumanist.... It's kind of the same way I feel about our climate issues... Sometimes I want to make everything slow down so that we can preserve human life on Earth.... and other times I realise that the Earth doesn't need us and will go on long after we are gone if we make human life in its current form impossible...

                _/\_
                sat/ah
                matt
                I'm quite certain that life on Earth will keep on going after humans go extinct. In fact, I take this space to say even if we tried, we couldn't make it worse than 'The Great Dying' (after the Permian), some forms of life like the jelly fish and octopus are benefiting from climate change. There's evidence that life evolves into more complex beings after massive extinctions. That doesn't mean I want that to happen, but gives me hope that things will turn well, eventually; like Jundo said, everything comes in cycles.

                Gassho

                stlah, Kaitan
                Kaitan - 界探 - Realm searcher

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 40688

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Matt Johnson

                  Ill stop bugging you... I find myself oscillating wildly between being anthropocentric and being transhumanist.... It's kind of the same way I feel about our climate issues... Sometimes I want to make everything slow down so that we can preserve human life on Earth.... and other times I realise that the Earth doesn't need us and will go on long after we are gone if we make human life in its current form impossible...

                  _/\_
                  sat/ah
                  matt
                  Still, don't get me wrong. I think that we should do everything possible to keep our species (or its biological successors ... for evolution continues on ... ) alive and well on this planet for as long as possible, which involves our living in greater harmony with this planet and changing aspects of our greedy, angry, violent nature (yes, I believe I wrote a book about that). We should try to keep the Sapien Show going as long as possible.

                  My point is only that, if the curtain ever comes down on this show in this theatre, there are many other actors ready to step into the role, and many other theatres still open on Cosmic Broadway ...

                  Gassho, J
                  stlah
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Kaitan
                    Member
                    • Mar 2023
                    • 562

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Matt Johnson

                    Oh my God, I'm just reading it now... I bought yesterday and I'm about quarter of the way through.... He's brilliant...

                    Also a section that is a very good primer on Zionism for anyone who's curious...

                    Matt
                    Awesome, if you recommend it, I'll get it. I read Sapiens and it was a great read.

                    Gassho

                    stlah, Kaitan
                    Kaitan - 界探 - Realm searcher

                    Comment

                    • Matt Johnson
                      Member
                      • Jun 2024
                      • 500

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Jundo

                      Oh, I agree with you almost 100% (I actually do trust AI more than human beings for SOME tasks.) I just heard this expert yesterday, on the much more pessimistic side. I have to agree with him about all the risks and dark possibilities (by the way, this entire interview series is good).

                      So while this video gives me the chills, I also find myself not agreeing with the more devastating worst case scenarios he lays out...

                      one thing that most people whose heads are buried in screens and code conveniently forget that AGI’s existence, development, and dominance are not isolated from the vulnerabilities of human civilization. Our “code economy,” electrical grid, supply chains, and computational infrastructure are not indestructible; they’re incredibly complex but also precarious. For AGI to truly “take over,” it would need to both survive and manage these very same systems—systems that we, as humans, struggle to keep stable.

                      So while Tallinn's concern about recursive self-improvement and AGI runaway is valid within certain technological scenarios, it assumes a level of infrastructural resilience that’s far from guaranteed. Our interconnected fragility might inherently limit AGI's ability to dominate.

                      I think it is actually more likely that we end up back as hunter-gatherers before AGI can secure itself enough infrastructural resilience.... The code can advance very quickly but the physical takes time, resources and enough people to buy into the story of "progress" for long enough (we can barely hold it together for one election cycle)

                      _/\_
                      sat/ah
                      matt

                      Comment

                      • Jundo
                        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 40688

                        #26
                        I think it is actually more likely that we end up back as hunter-gatherers ...
                        Oh, you are going to LOVE the Dharma Name I chose for you.

                        Gassho, J
                        stlah
                        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                        Comment

                        • Matt Johnson
                          Member
                          • Jun 2024
                          • 500

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Jundo

                          Oh, you are going to LOVE the Dharma Name I chose for you.


                          _/\_
                          sat/ah
                          matt

                          Comment

                          • Matt Johnson
                            Member
                            • Jun 2024
                            • 500

                            #28
                            Also vaguely on this subject in the realm of book recommendations... as I encounter people discussing AI and transhumanism and information, snippets of a book I read a while ago called XX come to mind... It was an unusual book but well worth reading here's the synopsis:

                            Title: The XX: A Novel, Graphic
                            Author: Rian Hughes

                            The XX is a genre-defying novel blending prose, visual storytelling, typography, and graphic design. It centers on a mysterious signal from outer space known as “The Message,” which is detected by SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence). Scientists are baffled by its origin and nature, as it appears to be non-random and possibly intentional.

                            The story follows a team of scientists, hackers, and dreamers as they attempt to decode the signal, uncover its purpose, and grapple with its implications for humanity and life on Earth. The narrative is interwoven with conceptual art, excerpts from fictional documents, and experimental layouts, reflecting the complexity and mystery of the signal itself.

                            Themes of communication, artificial intelligence, and humanity’s place in the cosmos are central, with the book exploring how alien contact might reshape our understanding of reality, technology, and ourselves.

                            Rian Hughes creates an immersive reading experience that challenges conventional storytelling, making The XX as much a work of art as it is a science fiction novel.

                            _/\_
                            sat/ah
                            matt

                            Comment

                            • Jundo
                              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 40688

                              #29
                              Things move fast ...
                              .
                              Gassho, J
                              stlah
                              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                              Comment

                              • Matt Johnson
                                Member
                                • Jun 2024
                                • 500

                                #30
                                I watched that whole awakening the machine series. Curious which one of those guys views you come close to?

                                I'm resonating quite a bit with Max Tegmark.

                                _/\_
                                sat/ah
                                matt

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