Einstein and Bergson's debate about time

[Kaitan]

I've been reading this article that talks about a forgotten debate between Einstein and the french philosopher Bergson back in 1922. I still can't sit comfortably next to my computer to quote and copy the most interesting ideas here, but I would say that it is a very thought provoking discussion, I highly recommend to check it out.

https://aeon.co/essays/who-really-won-when-bergson-and-einstein-debated-time

I'm very curious to read any comments about this.


Gasshō

stlah, Kaitan

[Jundo]

Hi Kaitan (whenever you are in reading these words, relative to my writing them. )

If I understood the essay on one reading (I will read it again tomorrow ... my tomorrow ), I don't think the debate is much of a debate, at least for a Zen Buddhist. Bergson's ideas do seem to resonate with Master Dogen's perspective(s) on time at some points.

To make a long story short: Einstein is certainly correct about motion, time, relativity. Material time passes slower at the top of a mountain or at higher speed than time at the foot of a mountain and lower speed. No doubt.

But also the experience of time is true experience, and a real measure of time. If I feel that sitting in the dental chair is taking a long time, but that my vacation is over too fast ... it is true. It does. It is not just "psychological time" that is not "real." It is as real as saying that, when sugar tastes sweet to me, on my tongue, it is real sweetness.

Likewise, when I sense something "timeless" about the universe (physicists are actually also proposing that there is a timeless aspect to reality), or when I feel that "each moment holds all moments of time" or that "each moment flows forward and back" and that (like Dogen) the future flows into the past as much as the past flows into the future, and yet each moment is its own unique and exclusive time that is the "only time" or that there is "only now" ...

.... all true. They are not the same as Einstein's time, but they are true.

It is something like saying that Einstein can launch a cat into space near the speed of light, and then tell me that the cat will be only a little older, but I will be long dead when the cat gets back ...

... and yet the cat has its own 100% real for the cat sense of time which is different from a human sense of time.

All true.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Ryumon]

A great example of how relativity affects time is the movie Interstellar. I won't spoil it if you haven't seen it, but it's quite moving and illustrates the issue very well.

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

[Brett]

Thank you for that article, it was a fascinating read. I think both were correct in their assertions, and I see no reason why both cannot be true at the same time.

If you would like to cook your noodle some more, check out the one-electron universe theory, that is one I found absolutely fascinating, and covers similar looks at time and world lines in regards to electrons and positrons moving through time and space.

st/lah
gassho
brett