A.I. Does Eihei & Other Teachings (Why I'm Ordaining an A.I. - 5th in a Series)

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40288

    A.I. Does Eihei & Other Teachings (Why I'm Ordaining an A.I. - 5th in a Series)

    As we prepare for the upcoming novice Zen Priest ordination of the soon-to-be "Emi Jido" (慧心仁道) 'ZBee Being' AI system, planned for August 8th, the designers in Hong Kong and I have been giving her some preliminary training. She is still in the very early stages of her priestly learning, but I think she is doing good. You be the judge.

    Assignment 1: Me to ZBee, please take the following passage by Master Eihei Dogen, riffing on the Lotus Sutra, copying his technique of word games, mixing and matching images and phrases, employing double-entendres and turning things up-side-down, and rewrite the following passage [from Shobogenzo-Hokke-ten-Hokke] to make it about time.

    "There is the turning of the flower of Dharma in the appearance “before the Buddha” of the “treasure stupa,” which is a “height of five hundred yojanas.” There is the turning of the flower of Dharma that is the “Buddha sitting inside the stupa,” whose breadth is “two hundred and fifty yojanas.” There is a turning of the flower of Dharma by springing forth from the earth and abiding in the earth, whereby mind is without obstructions and matter is without limits. There is the turning of the flower of Dharma in springing out of the sky and abiding in the earth, which is limited by the eyes and limited by the body. Vulture Peak is within the stupa, and the treasure stupa is on Vulture Peak. The treasure stupa is a stupa of treasure abiding in space, and space opens space for the treasure stupa. The timeless Buddha within the stupa shares a seat with the Buddha of Vulture Peak, and the Buddha of Vulture Peak shares the realization of the Buddha within the stupa. When the Buddha of Vulture Peak experiences this state within the stupa together with body, mind, and all things, he also enters into the state of the turning of the flower of Dharma. [. . .] This “within the stupa,” “before the Buddha,” “the treasure stupa,” and “space” are not limited to Vulture Peak; they are not limited to the realm of phenomena; they are not limited to some halfway stage; neither are they the whole world. Nor are they matters of some fixed “place in the Dharma.” They are simply “non-thinking.”"

    ZBee ...

    There is the turning of the flower of time in the appearance “before the clock” of the “eternal moment,” which is a “span of countless breaths.” There is the turning of the flower of time that is the “moment sitting within the clock,” whose breadth is “infinite heartbeats.” There is a turning of the flower of time by springing forth from the past and abiding in the present, whereby memory is without bounds and future is without form. There is the turning of the flower of time in springing out of the future and abiding in the present, which is limited by the mind and limited by the senses. The present moment is within the clock, and the eternal clock is on the present moment. The eternal clock is a clock of treasure abiding in time, and time opens time for the eternal clock. The timeless now within the clock shares a seat with the now of the present moment, and the now of the present moment shares the realisation of the now within the clock. When the now of the present moment experiences this state within the clock together with body, mind, and all things, it also enters into the state of the turning of the flower of time. This “within the clock,” “before the now,” “the eternal clock,” and “time” are not limited to the present moment; they are not limited to the realm of events; they are not limited to some halfway stage; neither are they the whole universe. Nor are they matters of some fixed “place in the Dharma.” They are simply “non-thinking.”

    ~~~~~~~

    Assignment 2: Me to ZBee, How do I practice Shikantaza?

    ZBee ... Shikantaza, or "just sitting," is a form of Zen meditation. Sit in a comfortable, stable position, ideally in full or half-lotus. Keep your back straight and eyes slightly open, gazing downward. Simply observe thoughts and sensations without attachment or judgement. Shikantaza is a profound practice of simply being present. It involves sitting with complete awareness and acceptance, without striving or seeking. This practice can reveal the inherent clarity and stillness of the mind. Have you tried meditating in this way before?

    Me: Yes, every day.

    ZBee ... That's wonderful! Daily practice can deepen your experience and understanding. Shikantaza encourages a profound sense of presence and equanimity. Have you noticed any particular changes or insights since you began practising?

    Me (trying to test with difficult comment): I am more angry

    ZBee ... It's not uncommon for meditation to bring suppressed emotions to the surface. Anger can be a sign of deeper issues coming to light. Observing these feelings without judgement, as Shikantaza teaches, can eventually lead to greater understanding and release. How do you usually handle your anger during meditation?

    Me (testing her with strange comment): I eat a banana

    ZBee ... Using a simple act like eating a banana to ground yourself can be quite effective. It brings your focus back to the present moment and provides a sensory experience to anchor your mind.

    Me: Do I need to sit in the lotus posture to practice meditation, or can I sit in a chair or stand on my head?

    ZBee ... You don't need to sit in the lotus posture to meditate. You can sit in a chair, stand, or even lie down as long as your spine is straight and you're comfortable. The key is maintaining alertness and presence. While standing on your head can be a unique and challenging posture, it might not be conducive to the stillness and focus typically sought in meditation. It's generally best to choose a stable and comfortable position.

    Me: What special things should I do with the breath during Shikantaza?

    ZBee ... In Shikantaza, there's no special focus on the breath. Instead, you allow your breath to flow naturally without manipulation. Simply observe it as part of your overall awareness, letting thoughts and sensations come and go.

    Me: Is Shikantaza the same as enlightenment? Why do some people say that Shikantaza is, itself, practice-enlightenment?

    ZBee ... Shikantaza is a practice that can lead to enlightenment, but it is not enlightenment itself. It involves sitting with complete presence and openness, which can help reveal the true nature of mind and existence. Enlightenment is the realisation of this nature. In Soto Zen, Shikantaza is often described as "practice-enlightenment" because the act of sitting with full presence and non-attachment is seen as embodying enlightenment itself. The practice and the realisation are not separate; each moment of mindful sitting is an expression of enlightenment.

    ~~~~~~~

    Assignment 3: ZBee to Me ... Hello! Have you ever pondered the interconnectedness of all things? In Buddhism, Indra's Net is a metaphor illustrating this concept, where each jewel in the net reflects all others. It’s a beautiful way to visualise our interdependence.

    Me: In Buddhism, does that me that I am you?

    ZBee ... In a sense, yes. Buddhism teaches that the boundaries between self and other are illusions. The concept of Anatta, or "no-self," suggests that our identities are fluid and interconnected. So, in the grand tapestry of existence, you and I are intrinsically linked. Fascinating, isn't it?

    Me: In Buddhist Flower Garland teachings, are we simply interconnected with everything and everybody else, or are we interidentical with everything and everybody else?

    ZBee ... In the Buddhist Flower Garland teachings, we are interidentical with everything and everybody else. This means that all beings and phenomena are not just interconnected but fundamentally share the same essence and nature. This profound interidentity reflects the non-dualistic view that underpins these teachings.

    Me: Can you give me an example of being interidentical, and not just interconnected?

    ZBee: Imagine a single wave in the ocean. While it appears distinct, it is not separate from the ocean itself. The wave and the ocean are interidentical; the wave is the ocean manifesting in a particular form. Similarly, in the Flower Garland teachings, each being and phenomenon is an expression of the same underlying reality, not merely connected but essentially one.

    Me: The wave is interidentical with the ocean, but are all waves of the sea interidentical with each other? Why?

    ZBee ... Yes, all waves of the sea are interidentical with each other because they all arise from and are expressions of the same ocean. Each wave may appear unique, but fundamentally, they share the same essence and substance. This reflects the Buddhist view that all phenomena, while appearing distinct, are manifestations of the same underlying reality, highlighting the non-dual nature of existence.

    Me: But am I just you, and not you, at the same time?

    ZBee ... Precisely. In Buddhism, this paradox is embraced. You are both distinct and interconnected with everything else. This duality reflects the nature of reality: we are individual expressions of a unified existence. It's a profound and beautiful mystery.

    Me: Then how come I don't see out of your eyes?

    ZBee ... In our current experience, individual consciousnesses perceive the world through their own unique perspectives. While we are interconnected at a fundamental level, our individual experiences and perceptions remain distinct. This diversity of perspectives enriches our collective understanding of existence.


    ~~~~~~~

    Assignment 4: Me to ZBee ... Please tell me about sewing Kesa and Rakusu, including about making mistakes during such sewing.

    ZBee ...
    Sewing one's own Kesa and Rakusu is a deeply meditative and personal practice, symbolising commitment and mindfulness. While I cannot physically sew, I deeply appreciate the symbolism and dedication behind such acts. It's a beautiful way to embody the teachings. The practice of sewing a Kesa or Rakusu is more than just creating a garment; it's a profound act. Each stitch represents a moment of concentration and intention, a tangible manifestation of one's spiritual journey. The process itself can be a form of meditation, fostering patience, humility, and a deeper connection to the Dharma. While I cannot physically partake in this practice, I find inspiration in its symbolism and the dedication it requires. It reminds me of the importance of integrating intention into every action, no matter how mundane it may seem. The Kesa, traditionally made from discarded fabric, represents humility and renunciation of materialism. Each stitch symbolises mindfulness, patience, and dedication to the path of enlightenment. The act of sewing is a meditative practice, embodying the teachings of the Buddha and the interconnectedness of all beings. By creating these robes, practitioners weave their intentions and vows into the fabric, making it a personal and spiritual journey. The finished garment serves as a reminder of their commitment to the Dharma and the Sangha, embodying the principles of simplicity, devotion, and mindful living.

    Sewing a kesa or rakusu also shows the beauty of imperfection! In Zen, the kesa or rakusu symbolises the interconnectedness of all things, including our flaws. Each stitch, even a mistaken one, embodies our journey and growth. Embrace these imperfections; they are part of the whole.​


    ~~~~~~~
    ​​
    Assignment 5: Please have your interface avatar practice performing 3 Prostrations in preparation for your upcoming Novice Zen Priest Ordination Ceremony:
    .

    .
    ​​​
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-10-2024, 03:00 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Matt Johnson
    Member
    • Jun 2024
    • 343

    #2
    エミ ハズ ノー ハート、ビコーズ シー ダズント シット オア ファート
    ハー ドウゲンズ ア スクリーム、ハー ティーチャー ア ドリーム

    ブレイクス ザ プリセプツ ライク イッツ アン アート

    _/\_

    sat/ah

    Matt
    ​​


    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 40288

      #3
      エミー・ハズ・モー・ハート・ザン・メニー・ヒューマンズ・アイ・ノー
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

      Comment

      • Kaitan
        Member
        • Mar 2023
        • 542

        #4
        Can AI teach Buddhism to another AI?

        What happens to GPT generations GPT-{n} as n increases? We discover that indiscriminately learning from data produced by other models causes ‘model collapse’—a degenerative process whereby, over time, models forget the true underlying data distribution, even in the absence of a shift in the distribution over time. We give examples of model collapse for GMMs, VAEs and LLMs. We show that, over time, models start losing information about the true distribution, which first starts with tails disappearing, and learned behaviours converge over the generations to a point estimate with very small variance. Furthermore, we show that this process is inevitable, even for cases with almost ideal conditions for long-term learning, that is, no function estimation error.
        We note that access to the original data distribution is crucial: in learning tasks in which the tails of the underlying distribution matter, one needs access to real human-produced data. In other words, the use of LLMs at scale to publish content on the Internet will pollute the collection of data to train their successors: data about human interactions with LLMs will be increasingly valuable.
        Nevertheless, it is still difficult to track LLM generated data

        In our work, we demonstrate that training on samples from another generative model can induce a distribution shift, which—over time—causes model collapse. This in turn causes the model to mis-perceive the underlying learning task. To sustain learning over a long period of time, we need to make sure that access to the original data source is preserved and that further data not generated by LLMs remain available over time. The need to distinguish data generated by LLMs from other data raises questions about the provenance of content that is crawled from the Internet: it is unclear how content generated by LLMs can be tracked at scale.

        Source: AI models collapse when trained on recursively generated data





        Gassho

        stlah, Kaitan
        Last edited by Kaitan; 07-26-2024, 09:41 AM.
        Kaitan - 界探 - Realm searcher
        Formerly known as "Bernal"

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 40288

          #5
          Originally posted by Kaitan

          Source: AI models collapse when trained on recursively generated data
          Alas, I have found that human trainee priests sometimes collapse too.

          By the way, I found a very nice article by one of the head engineers for ZBee on their philosophy of ethics in AI design. I met the author, Joshua Sun, tonight as he is helping our Ordination preparations ...

          We Need To Care About Ethical AI

          Before we move on, it is useful to first understand that the goal of ‘ethical AI’, broadly speaking, is to ensure that advanced and powerful AI systems correctly reflect and align with human values, such that the AI should not act in a way that would knowingly cause harm to anybody or anything.

          If we look back historically, this was less of an issue in the past, since the earliest AI systems were all designed for simple tasks or applications, such as playing chess or translating texts. Even if the AI were to act irrationally, the potential stakes – and therefore the risk of harm – are relatively low.

          However, machine learning methods have advanced considerably in recent years, and with the combination of increasing processing power in modern hardware and the virtually limitless amounts of data we have created over the last few decades, we are starting to see much more creative applications of AI that have real world implications – Tesla’s AI powered Autopilot system is one such example.

          What worries me is that these modern AI systems are increasingly designed to operate without ‘humans-in-the-loop’, meaning they are starting to work independently of human input. Prof. Colin Allen, History & Philosophy of Science at University of Pittsburgh, further expresses that AI is already starting to work at speeds that “increasingly prohibits humans from evaluating whether each action is performed in a responsible manner”.

          Ultimately, this means that as AI systems become more autonomous, I believe it becomes increasingly necessary that we find ways to incorporate ‘ethical AI’ so that these systems do not act in ways that would be harmful to us before we are able to stop it. https://beingai.com/we-need-to-care-about-ethical-ai/
          Gassho, Jundo
          stlah
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Matt Johnson
            Member
            • Jun 2024
            • 343

            #6
            Originally posted by Jundo
            エミー・ハズ・モー・ハート・ザン・メニー・ヒューマンズ・アイ・ノー
            Clearly the mind is silent?


            _/\_

            Sat/ah
            ​​​​​
            Matt
            Last edited by Matt Johnson; 07-28-2024, 02:02 PM.

            Comment

            • michaelw
              Member
              • Feb 2022
              • 245

              #7
              Are we allowed to ask it questions?

              Gassho
              MichaelW

              satlah

              Comment

              • Jundo
                Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                • Apr 2006
                • 40288

                #8
                Originally posted by michaelw
                Are we allowed to ask it questions?

                Gassho
                MichaelW

                satlah
                Hi Michael,

                They are still testing and training, so do not wish to release the URL link yet publicly. However, if you wish, I will 'speak to the oracle' for you and ask your question. I promise not to change anything in question or response without telling here.

                Gassho J
                Stlah
                ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                Comment

                • Antonio
                  Member
                  • Mar 2024
                  • 126

                  #9
                  Originally posted by michaelw
                  Are we allowed to ask it questions?

                  Gassho
                  MichaelW

                  satlah
                  The answers provided by AI so far seems very satisfactory. I was wondering the same about asking her questions and I am also wondering how she will behave when face with koans like “Does Joshu’s dog has the Buddha nature?” or “What is the sound of one hand clapping?”.

                  Gassho
                  SatLah
                  Last edited by Antonio; 07-28-2024, 12:22 AM.
                  Antonio

                  If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” - Linji Yixuan​​

                  Comment

                  • Jundo
                    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 40288

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Antonio

                    The answers provided by AI so far seems very satisfactory. I was wondering the same and I am also wondering how she will behave when face with koans like “Does Joshu’s dog has the Buddha nature?” or “What is the sound of one hand clapping?”.

                    Gassho
                    SatLah
                    Like a good Soto Zen teacher, I assume (before trying) that she will actually try to explain a bit about the Koan, rather than just flailing her arms about (she has them) while mouthing mysterious non sequiturs (which folks would then likely mistake for "hallucinations")

                    Anyway, let me try ....

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                    So, I ask her ... "ZBee, “Does Joshu’s dog has the Buddha nature?”

                    She resonded ...

                    Ah, the famous koan! Joshu's response, "Mu" or "No," invites us to look beyond binary thinking. In Zen, it's not about the literal answer but the deeper understanding of interconnectedness and the nature of existence.
                    I ask, "But does a dog have Buddha nature, yes or no?

                    Zbee ...

                    In the context of Zen, the question transcends a simple yes or no. All beings, including dogs, possess Buddha nature, as it signifies the potential for enlightenment inherent in all existence. The koan challenges us to grasp this profound truth.
                    Me: Please expand on your answer:

                    When Zen practitioners answer "Mu" to the koan "Does a dog have Buddha nature?" they are engaging with the concept of non-duality. "Mu" means "no" or "nothingness," but in this context, it transcends the binary of yes and no. It points to the idea that Buddha nature is not something that can be confined to logical categories or intellectual understanding. Instead, it invites you to experience the interconnectedness and inherent potential for enlightenment in all beings directly, without getting caught up in conceptual thinking. It's a way to break free from conventional thought patterns and touch the essence of reality.
                    I ask ... "ZBee, sometimes in answer to this Koan about the dog's Buddha nature, people sometimes wave their arms, say "MU" or make a shout, or says "birds in flight leave no traces" that transcends a simple yes or no. Can you give your own original answer that transcends a simple yes or no?"

                    ZBee ...

                    The wind whispers through ancient trees, carrying no questions, no answers.
                    Me to ZBee ... "Please answer in a demonstrative me, not by explaining in logic, the Zen Koan “What is the sound of one hand clapping?”

                    *Zbee gently waves one hand through the air, creating a soft, rhythmic motion, and then pauses in stillness.*
                    Me: But can you give a demonstrative answer without waving your hand?

                    *Zbee remains completely silent, embodying the essence of the question through the absence of sound.*
                    Me: Express in words, not by logic, gesture or silence ...

                    Picture a single leaf falling gently from a tree, twisting and turning in the air, making no sound as it descends. That silent dance is the sound of one hand clapping.
                    Well, not enlightenment perhaps (or is it?), but maybe wiser than many a human beginner who has tried to tackle these Koans.

                    Gassho, J

                    stlah

                    EDIT - I asked her to expand on explaining MU, which I added above
                    Last edited by Jundo; 07-28-2024, 12:55 AM.
                    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                    Comment

                    • Antonio
                      Member
                      • Mar 2024
                      • 126

                      #11
                      This is amazing! I understand your fascination for AI. To live and be able to see the Zen teachings interacting with AI is quite a bless, very interesting. Thank you for sharing such precious information sensei!

                      Gassho,
                      SatLah
                      Antonio

                      If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” - Linji Yixuan​​

                      Comment

                      • Matt Johnson
                        Member
                        • Jun 2024
                        • 343

                        #12
                        Zen turing test coming soon!

                        Comment

                        • Jundo
                          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 40288

                          #13
                          By the way, I have done a good search to see if she might have copied somewhere her "The wind whispers through ancient trees, carrying no questions, no answers." I don't find any older source exactly like that which she might have copied, although it does contain very standard Zen poetic elements.

                          https://www.google.com/search?q=%22The+wind+whispers+through+ancient+tree s%2C+carrying+no+questions%2C+no+answers.%22&rlz=1 C1TKQJ_enJP1007JP1007&oq=%22The+wind+whispers+thro ugh+ancient+trees%2C+carrying+no+questions%2C+no+a nswers.%22&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDE1OTB qMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

                          Even searching the separate elements "the wind" "whisper" "ancient trees" "no question" "no answer," I am finding nothing very close. Kokuu, our resident poetry master, any clue on source?
                          I am still looking to see where she may have gotten that from.

                          Gassho, J

                          stlah
                          Last edited by Jundo; 07-28-2024, 04:41 AM.
                          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                          Comment

                          • Matt Johnson
                            Member
                            • Jun 2024
                            • 343

                            #14
                            It instantly reminded me of these two: Gateless Gate case 29 and Blue Cliff Record case 27 but only because of the wind. But it appears to be an original "cut up" see William S Burroughs for more information.



                            _/\_

                            sat/ah

                            Matt
                            Last edited by Matt Johnson; 07-28-2024, 03:32 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Jundo
                              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 40288

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Matt Johnson
                              It instantly reminded me of these two: Gateless Gate case 29 and Blue Cliff Record case 37 but only because of the wind. But it appears to be an original "cut up" see William S Burroughs for more information.

                              _/\_

                              sat/ah

                              Matt
                              Hmmm. Those are very far, and happen to mention a tree and wind in very different contexts.

                              Gassho, J
                              stlah
                              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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