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Oh my.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE -
Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAHComment
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Congrats Jundo - looking forward to hopefully seeing the TED talk online one day soon!
(Apologies in advance for going slightly over 3 sentences, but it's relevant.)
As chance would have it, right before I saw this thread, I saw a post elsewhere online from an artist alliance which is understandably perturbed about the rise in generative AI. While AI tools are amazing (especially the image generators), the post highlighted the fact that these tools are simply a mirror to reflect human innovation, writings, and art, without themselves being inspired or emotionally connected to anything that is produced. Which is true - AI models work backwards, trained by consuming humanity's best and worst creations (and a lot in between), figuring out the words that describe those works, and then when asked about new combinations of words put together a complex formula to guess at some approximations of what might make sense to the human requesting output. GPT's wise advice is borrowed from the minds of our ancestors and predecessors, then re-summarized to avoid the appearance of direct plagiarism.
None of which is to yuck anyone's yum about using AI tools, but rather I wanted to respectfully ensure that we all know that the creativity, innovation, and even the spiritual lessons of humans required to get GPT or any other AI tool to say or do anything at all, must remain present in order to seed AI-produced content. And humans still need to create those prompts asking the AI to do anything at all: A hammer doesn't search out, hold, and drive a nail on its own accord.
Gassho, G
SatlahComment
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Hi,
May I disagree with you a bit?
Human beings also largely base their knowledge and opinions on what others have done before, repeating the same with (hopefully) their own personal twists. For example, I did not invent Zen Buddhism, but digested over many years what information I could cull from the writings of ancient and modern teachers, and just paraphrase, rephrase and spew out the same, with my own "presentation" and little additions. I did not invent Zazen, but just experience what it allows me to experience as data points. The Beatles did not invent music, instruments and notes, but learned from all who came before and repackaged the same in new and creative ways.
The main difference is that human beings, with our small brains, can only sweep in limited knowledge and experience, while AI can sweep in all the words and ideas and music of the internet and beyond.
Is it emotionally attached? Perhaps not (yet). But I wonder if human beings are themselves a kind of biological robot who experiences the illusion of being the creator of its own ideas, and our emotional reactions to it. My brain just tells me what to feel for its own subconscious reasons, and I convince myself that it is me feeling it. In other words, half the opinions out of my mouth are things I heard in the news that appeal to me, so I repeat. I listen to the music on the pop charts. I dress not far from current fashions. How "inspired and emotional" are all the folks getting their personal tastes from "influencers" on tik-tok?
I do have some creative and original ideas of my own but, gosh, look at those crazy AI drawings ... most representing combinations of images, some accidental, which are unlike their sources.
If a physicist like Einstein receives the Noble Prize for an observation about the universe, should we give the prize to AI which finds via data crunching an even more important law or force in the universe that humans missed? It may be an even more amazing discovery than Einstein's.
I think you may give human beings too much credit.
Gassho, J
stlahLast edited by Jundo; 04-23-2024, 01:38 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Just wondering . . .
In his book The Zen of Creativity, John Daido Loori chose as the epigraph to his "Introduction" the following quotation from D. T. Suzuki:
"The arts of Zen are not intended for utilitarian purposes, or for purely aesthetic enjoyment, but are meant to train the mind, indeed, to bring it into contact with ultimate reality."
I'm wondering how AI fits into that??
jenny
stlahLast edited by Jenny A; 04-22-2024, 06:21 PM.Comment
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Just wondering . . .
In his book The Zen of Creativity, John Daido Loori chose as the epigraph to his "Introduction" the following quotation from D. T. Suzuki:
"The arts of Zen are not intended for utilitarian purposes, or for purely aesthetic enjoyment, but are meant to train the mind, indeed, to bring it into contact with ultimate reality."
I'm wondering how AI fits into that??
jenny
stlah
What is ultimate reality?
Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAHComment
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Hi Jenny,Just wondering . . .
In his book The Zen of Creativity, John Daido Loori chose as the epigraph to his "Introduction" the following quotation from D. T. Suzuki:
"The arts of Zen are not intended for utilitarian purposes, or for purely aesthetic enjoyment, but are meant to train the mind, indeed, to bring it into contact with ultimate reality."
I'm wondering how AI fits into that??
jenny
stlah
I feel that an aspect of the arts in Zen Practice is in our doing, personal expression, pouring oneself into the act ... whether a poem, wielding an ink brush, a ceremony or the like. We cannot outsource that experience, pouring, to another being, whether human or AI. This must come from our own expression of our energy, heart and one's own hand.
On the other (one) hand, there are also the aspects of Zen arts that are meant to communicate a message, a teaching, a feeling, often beyond words, through the poem or strokes of the brush. The question then is what the hearer, the viewer, learns or how they are touched by the image, sounds, words or lesson. Perhaps here, AI could teach Zen lessons through art, images, sounds and poetic words as well as it seems to be developing the ability to convey Zen lessons through prose.
Here, for example, I asked ChatGPT to create a Zen Enso ... Since the Enso is Empty, ChatGPT is Empty, the viewer is Empty, I will leave Empty critics to debate the success or failure of this effort ...
I also asked for "a scroll of the Chinese character MU in traditional Zen style" ...
ChatGPT added, "Here is the scroll featuring the Chinese character 'MU', designed in traditional Zen style. The character, symbolizing 'nothingness' or 'emptiness', is central on the scroll, expressed with bold and slightly irregular brush strokes on rice paper."
I asked the Buddhist Chatbot NORBU to say the meaning of the Enso as an expression of MU, and NORBU responded ...
I asled NORBU to create an original Koan about MU ... NORBU responded ...In the context of Zen Buddhism, the Enso symbol, which represents "MU" (無), symbolizes the concept of emptiness or void. This is deeply rooted in the Zen philosophy of non-duality and the intrinsic emptiness of all phenomena, as highlighted in the Heart Sutra's teaching on form being emptiness and emptiness being form. The Enso, a circle drawn in one or two uninhibited brushstrokes, expresses a moment when the mind is free to let the body create. The circle may be open or closed, and this openness symbolises the incomplete nature of knowledge and existence. When associated with MU, it particularly emphasises the idea of boundless potential and the inherent imperfection of all things, reflecting the Zen teaching that true enlightenment comes from embracing the imperfection and transient nature of the world.
ChatGPT responded with more ...Certainly! Here is an original koan that reflects the concept of "Mu":
The Moon's Reflection
One evening, a young monk and his teacher were walking by a quiet pond. The full moon shone brightly, casting a clear reflection on the still water. The young monk pointed to the reflection and asked, "Master, does the moon's reflection in the water have Buddha nature?"
The teacher smiled and replied, "Mu."
This koan invites reflection on the nature of existence and non-existence, similar to the paradoxical essence of "Mu" in Zhaozhou's response. It challenges the practitioner to look beyond the apparent and explore the depths of understanding, where the conventional distinctions dissolve.
I asked NORBU for a poem about MU in traditional Zen style ... NORBU responded ...In the heart of a tranquil forest, nestled beneath the canopy of ancient trees, a young disciple sought enlightenment from the revered master.
"Master," the disciple implored, "what is the essence of MU?"
The master, serene as the gentle breeze that rustled the leaves, beckoned the disciple to a still pond reflecting the moon's serene glow.
"Behold," spoke the master, "the surface of the water, ever-changing yet ever-still. In its depths, the reflection of the moon dances, yet the moon itself remains unmoved. Is it the water that changes, or the moon that dances?"
The disciple pondered, his mind like ripples upon the pond's surface. In the silence of contemplation, he glimpsed the truth.
"It is neither the water nor the moon," he whispered, "but the interplay of perception and reality, the dance of form and emptiness."
With a nod of approval, the master bestowed upon the disciple a gentle smile, as if the sun breaking through the morning mist.
"In the boundless expanse of MU," the master intoned, "there is no duality, no distinction. Only the ceaseless dance of existence, where the seeker and the sought dissolve into the vastness of the One."
ChatGPT offered ...In silent echoes,
Void whispers through the pine trees,
Mu, the unvoiced sound,
Neither here nor ever gone,
Stillness speaks the deepest truth.
As a poet, quite better than I can do, frankly. All mine start "roses are red ... violets are MU"In MU's silence,
Echoes of the void resound,
Emptiness reveals,
Form and formlessness entwine,
In the heart's awakening shine. 
Gassho, J
stlah
tsuku.jpgtsuku.jpgLast edited by Jundo; 04-23-2024, 01:39 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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By the way, I was very curious how ChatGPT might have derived its Kanji for MU from traditional forms. Here is ChatCPT (on the left):... and here are some variations (on the right) on how to brush MU. Notice particularly the "Gyosho" (Semi-Cursive or "Running" Script) second up from the bottom ...
Here is another variant (on the right) ...
Other variants. Notice particularly some in the middle column ...
I am not sure whether a calligraphy master would approve, but I think I see what ChatGPT tried to do there ...
Gassho, J
stlahLast edited by Jundo; 04-23-2024, 01:42 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Hi Jundo,
Of course - if everyone agreed on everything, the world would be pretty boring. You raise all fair points, and I often wonder if our folly to with artificial intelligence from the start was to not define "intelligence" in a way that doesn't exclude some humans from themselves being "intelligent," or would functionally include many clever species of animals as well.
That all being said, my question is what happens when you, as the human, don't give the AI a prompt or task to be achieved?
Gassho, G
satlahComment
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Is that an opinion?
Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAHComment
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