'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' ... Episode 61 ... Tradition

[Jundo]

It is a new Tradition to listen to our podcast ...

Episode 61 ... Tradition

Jundo and Kirk discuss tradition in zen. What are those funny sticks that the zen masters have, and what are they used for?

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Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Hōkan]

The few Shuso ceremonies I've seen featured actual (not scripted) dharma combat. Last month I participated in such at Clouds in Water Zen Center in St. Paul Minnesota where the case assigned to the shuso was # 98 from the Book of Equanimity. I asked my question and got my answer... and have been reflecting on that question since. (My question: in Zen, what is "intimacy"?)

On YouTube I saw a shuso ceremony from Sanshin where the dharma combat seemed similarly unscripted.

Maybe things are different (just a bit!) in the U.S. compared to Japan?

Sat this afternoon.

[Jundo]

The few Shuso ceremonies I've seen featured actual (not scripted) dharma combat. Last month I participated in such at Clouds in Water Zen Center in St. Paul Minnesota where the case assigned to the shuso was # 98 from the Book of Equanimity. I asked my question and got my answer... and have been reflecting on that question since. (My question: in Zen, what is "intimacy"?)

On YouTube I saw a shuso ceremony from Sanshin where the dharma combat seemed similarly unscripted.

Maybe things are different (just a bit!) in the U.S. compared to Japan?

Sat this afternoon.

Yes, in the West most groups (our among them) are trying to bring some spontaneity to the Ceremony but having it be unprepared. Here is ours from a few years ago ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16586-ANNOUNCEMENT-Treeleaf-Shuso-Hossenshiki-%28%E9%A6%96%E5%BA%A7%E6%B3%95%E6%88%A6%E5%BC%8F%29-Head-Seat-Dharma-Inquiry-Ceremony&highlight=shuso+ceremony

However, in Japan, the Soto Shu ceremony is pre-scripted, in archaic Japanese that even the modern Japanese cannot understand, so much memorize. Both questions and answers are set. As I say in the netcast, however, there is the philosophy that ... like an actor becoming Hamlet on stage ... by stepping into the role, one actually embodies the role ...

Here is one of the foreign born priests at Antaiji during their Hossenshiki. It is very dramatic.

https://youtu.be/DqotMDlFpjg

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

The few Shuso ceremonies I've seen featured actual (not scripted) dharma combat. Last month I participated in such at Clouds in Water Zen Center in St. Paul Minnesota where the case assigned to the shuso was # 98 from the Book of Equanimity. I asked my question and got my answer... and have been reflecting on that question since. (My question: in Zen, what is "intimacy"?)

On YouTube I saw a shuso ceremony from Sanshin where the dharma combat seemed similarly unscripted.

Maybe things are different (just a bit!) in the U.S. compared to Japan?

Sat this afternoon.

Yes, in the west most groups (ours among them) are trying to bring some spontaneity to the Ceremony by having it be largely unprepared regarding the challenges and responses. Here is ours from a few years ago ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16586-ANNOUNCEMENT-Treeleaf-Shuso-Hossenshiki-%28%E9%A6%96%E5%BA%A7%E6%B3%95%E6%88%A6%E5%BC%8F%29-Head-Seat-Dharma-Inquiry-Ceremony

However, in Japan, the Soto Shu ceremony is pre-scripted, in archaic 13th century Japanese that even the modern Japanese cannot understand, so must memorize. Both questions and answers are set. As I say in the netcast, however, there is the philosophy that ... like an actor becoming Hamlet on stage ... by stepping into the role, one actually embodies the role ...

Here is a Japanese Hossenshiki. You can see some of the inquirers reading their questions. It is very dramatic.

https://youtu.be/Vd_m2VKE96g

Gassho, J

STLah

[Tomás ESP]

Yes, in the West most groups (our among them) are trying to bring some spontaneity to the Ceremony but having it be unprepared. Here is ours from a few years ago ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16586-ANNOUNCEMENT-Treeleaf-Shuso-Hossenshiki-%28%E9%A6%96%E5%BA%A7%E6%B3%95%E6%88%A6%E5%BC%8F%29-Head-Seat-Dharma-Inquiry-Ceremony&highlight=shuso+ceremony

However, in Japan, the Soto Shu ceremony is pre-scripted, in archaic Japanese that even the modern Japanese cannot understand, so much memorize. Both questions and answers are set. As I say in the netcast, however, there is the philosophy that ... like an actor becoming Hamlet on stage ... by stepping into the role, one actually embodies the role ...

Here is one of the foreign born priests at Antaiji during their Hossenshiki. It is very dramatic.

https://youtu.be/DqotMDlFpjg

Gassho, J

STLah

Wow! Didn't understand a word (obviously) but fascinating to watch!

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Jundo]

Wow! Didn't understand a word (obviously) but fascinating to watch!

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

Actually, I switched the Antaiji video with the foreign priest for a Japanese only group. The latter is is obviously prepared ahead of time and scripted, but I am not sure how much they prepare the dialogue at Antaiji. Obviously, some of the staging and set phrases are practiced and rehearsed, but they are using more modern Japanese. I am not sure how much is scripted. Maybe I will write Muho and ask.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

Maybe I will write Muho and ask.

So, Muho wrote me back. They took a Middle Way. First, I notice that they used modern Japanese, and not the archaic forms in most sections. Also, Muho says ...

This ceremony was pre-arranged and rehearsed, although the shuso and the other monks thought up their own answers and replies.

Gassho, J

STLah