[Arts] Experience with Music

[MalleableGirlParts]

Hi everybody,

I hope it's ok to post my own thoughts and questions.

I love music and all kinds of it. I love the way it can alter my mood instantly. I suppose that having it affect your mood is something I should(?) be striving to avoid. But then I'm new to this practice and not so good at it.

The reason I wanted to post is to hear anybody's thoughts on different types of music. Do you avoid anything specifically on moral grounds or maybe because of how it makes you feel?

Is there such a thing in Zen where certain music isn't encouraged? I've certainly listened to my fair share of songs and albums that aren't generally fit for public consumption.

I will say that I do find myself avoiding or at least limiting certain music that I love because of how it makes me feel. I don't want to be agitated, especially driving. I've been choosing music that calms me and makes me smile.

But I do feel attachment (eek!) to important music to me. Music that takes me places and brings me those cherished memories I miss. I have a difficult time letting go of that, but also wonder if I even should. Is it really just a matter of perspective? If my interaction with the music is more in line with the experience of Zen practice does that make it ok?

Also, a tangentially related question: Do you listen to music while driving or cleaning or working? I do feel like it helps while doing those things, but then I'm not exactly present for either activity. What is everybody's feeling on this? I'm not necessarily a big fan of doing dishes, but listening to music or podcasts helps it become a more pleasurable experience.

Perhaps all of these issues will become moot points as I get further along...

Gasshō Sat Lah
Jenn

[Bion]

Hi, Jenn!
As a music lover, I sure can empathize with the idea of being moved my music. It's what I do for a living. I don't think however we have to avoid being moved by it. Music is just sound waves, specifically coded to generate certain emotions. Upbeat makes us happy, slow minor chords make us melancholic etc It's as deceitful as any other perception we are influenced by. I guess for us, hopefully, practice leads to an awareness that arises, or develops, of just how we are affected by perceptions, sensations and formations and that helps us not be too overpowered by them.

You know, traditionally, music was forbidden for monastics, precisely because of how it stirs up emotions and how it can change someone's mood. Silence is valued in our practice, also.. But we don't follow such restrictions. Except, for example, during retreats or special practice periods. As with anything in life, there is a time and a moment for everything.

To answer your last questions... I don't really listen to music while engaged in other activities. Sometimes I will have music playing as I'm mopping the floors or ironing. It depends on the day and mood. I know people who can't walk somewhere without headphones on, can't ride a bus or train without music or podcasts, even take a bluetooth spoeaker to the shower. For me, that's sort of an unneeded distraction. I am fine to be just walking, just showering, just doing dishes. But sometimes, I am fine just blasting Tina Turner on a Sunday morning with a mop in my hand.

Sorry for running long. Please don't take anything I said as an official buddhist stance or teaching. I'm a simple novice, sharing some personal thoughts!

Gassho
sat and lah

[Jundo]

I think that any music is fine that does not encourage, anger, violence, hate, greed and the like. Alas, the does eliminate a lot of music.

But we have our heavy metal and such ...
.

.
Gassho, J
stlah

[MalleableGirlParts]

Hi, Jenn!
As a music lover, I sure can empathize with the idea of being moved my music. It's what I do for a living. I don't think however we have to avoid being moved by it. Music is just sound waves, specifically coded to generate certain emotions. Upbeat makes us happy, slow minor chords make us melancholic etc It's as deceitful as any other perception we are influenced by. I guess for us, hopefully, practice leads to an awareness that arises, or develops, of just how we are affected by perceptions, sensations and formations and that helps us not be too overpowered by them.

You know, traditionally, music was forbidden for monastics, precisely because of how it stirs up emotions and how it can change someone's mood. Silence is valued in our practice, also.. But we don't follow such restrictions. Except, for example, during retreats or special practice periods. As with anything in life, there is a time and a moment for everything.

To answer your last questions... I don't really listen to music while engaged in other activities. Sometimes I will have music playing as I'm mopping the floors or ironing. It depends on the day and mood. I know people who can't walk somewhere without headphones on, can't ride a bus or train without music or podcasts, even take a bluetooth spoeaker to the shower. For me, that's sort of an unneeded distraction. I am fine to be just walking, just showering, just doing dishes. But sometimes, I am fine just blasting Tina Turner on a Sunday morning with a mop in my hand.

Sorry for running long. Please don't take anything I said as an official buddhist stance or teaching. I'm a simple novice, sharing some personal thoughts!

Gassho
sat and lah

Hi Bion!

No no! Official or not, this is exactly what I want to read! Rather than considering my actions in isolation and merely wondering what others do, I want to know. There's always a degree of separation from my perception of what somebody is like and their reality.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

Gasshō Jenn
Sat Lah

[Onki]

I think that any music is fine that does not encourage, anger, violence, hate, greed and the like. Alas, the does eliminate a lot of music.

But we have our heavy metal and such ...
.

.
Gassho, J
stlah

JUNDO!!

Thank you so much for sharing this!! I LOVE IT!! Metal music AND Buddhism!?
Incredible!!

Gasshō,

On

sat today/lah

[Ester]

Very interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up, Jenn. I've been for a while wondering about similar questions.
I tend to avoid both listening to and playing music that is violent and aggressive because of how it makes me feel.
Regarding listening to music while doing stuff, I used to do it all the time. But lately I realised I need more silence to be able to be more present. So now sometimes I just do things in silence.

Gassho
Ester
Sat Lah

[Ryumon]

Music is extremely important to me. I have a huge music collection, and have played a few different instruments. I'm very choosy about what I listen to; I can't put on random playlists on streaming services, but I carefully select the music I listen to for different activities. I do listen to music often when cooking and cleaning (the latter partly because of the noise of the vacuum cleaner), and sometimes when I work (I work at home), but I appreciate silence a lot. Most days, I listen to music for an hour or two, rarely more than that.

Do you avoid anything specifically on moral grounds or maybe because of how it makes you feel?

I'm not sure how to answer that. I mean, I don't listen to white power music, partly on moral grounds, partly because it's crap. Other than overtly political music, I'm not sure what moral grounds would prevent one from listening to certain types of music.

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

[Bion]

Other than overtly political music, I'm not sure what moral grounds would prevent one from listening to certain types of music.

Well, there are songs nowadays that use extremely nasty language. Some songs are literally porn. I can’t imagine some of these songs played in a home with children, for example.

Gassho
sat and lah

[Ryumon]

Fair point. I just don't find that sort of music. It's true that a lot of rap is "nasty," as you say. I don't listen to rap.

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

[Bion]

Fair point. I just don't find that sort of music. It's true that a lot of rap is "nasty," as you say. I don't listen to rap.

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

Not just rap... Pop as well. Loads of pop songs nowadays frequently use quite vulgar language.

Gassho
sat and lah

[Ryumon]

Well, again, music I don't listen to. I'm old.

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

[Bion]

Well, again, music I don't listen to. I'm old.

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

Can´t believe I´m about to say this, but... ME TOO

Gassho
sat and lah

[MalleableGirlParts]

Very interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up, Jenn. I've been for a while wondering about similar questions.
I tend to avoid both listening to and playing music that is violent and aggressive because of how it makes me feel.
Regarding listening to music while doing stuff, I used to do it all the time. But lately I realised I need more silence to be able to be more present. So now sometimes I just do things in silence.

Gassho
Ester
Sat Lah

Hi Ester!

Yes more and more I've been avoiding aggressive music. Or at least limiting it because it does tend to run counter to the way I'm aiming to feel. It saddens me a little bit because I do enjoy it, but I suppose as my wants and needs change it'll bother me less.

I'm not so sure I'm far enough along to be in silence while doing dishes or laundry. More often than not I will at least listen to calming music or podcasts on Zen or self improvement. You might call it distraction, but I prefer to call it efficient. :-)

Gasshō
Jenn Sat Lah

[Tai Shi]

I agree with Jundo. Music that depicts violence vulgar language and hatred I will not tolerate! However, I love most music and I most certainly appreciate music that soars above my aging ability to listen and appreciate Classical, and Baroque, Romantic or Modern music! Some music that I enjoyed as a small boy of 8 as in The New World Symphony.

[Matt Johnson]

Sometimes that vulgar music can be cathartic. Which is an emotional release or purification through activities that symbolically let people to express potentially harmful or negative emotions in a socially acceptable way.

we see this in lots of types of art, sports, or other controlled outlets that provide a way to process and release aggression, anger, or other emotions without actual (or way less) harm.

In these cases, emotions and drives are transformed into something beneficial or at least not as harmful to society.

Also has a little bit of the Vajrayana flavour to it.

_/\_
sat/ah
matt