Zen (film 2009)

[Shoshin]

Has anyone watched the film Zen (2009)?

https://m.imdb.com/it/title/tt1156470/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk

It's a biography about Dogen.
Is it historically accurate?

I'm watching it and I'd like to know if I must take it with a pinch of salt.

Thanks!
Gassho,
Ester
Satlah

[IanSmith]

Brad Warner did a review a while back on his hardcore zen website. ( brads a dharma brother of Jundo) it's OK, watched it many times, but has some inaccuracies, So view it with a pinch of salt.
Happy christmas
Gassho
ASat/ Lah

[Bion]

Has anyone watched the film Zen (2009)?

https://m.imdb.com/it/title/tt1156470/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk

It's a biography about Dogen.
Is it historically accurate?

I'm watching it and I'd like to know if I must take it with a pinch of salt.

Thanks!
Gassho,
Ester
Satlah

One of my favorites, pretty much everyone here has brought it up at one point or another!
For me, it is lovely to be able to see some of the things that we do every single day, both as lay practitioners and as monks.

Gassho
sat lah

[Shoshin]

IanSmith and Bion , thanks !
Gassho,
Ester
Satlah

[Jundo]

Lovely film. Here is my "beyond likes and dislikes" review from awhile back.

Yes, I think it historically accurate or, at least, in line with the official story and what is known about him. It does not seem to take many exaggerations or liberties, although I do not care for the "flying pink lotus" enlightenment scene ...

~~~

Re: New Master Dogen Movie

Hello from the Balcony ...

I was finally able to see the movie ... and (though Master Dogen advises during the film that we best drop all thought of "good" and "bad") ... the movie was GOOD!! (especially for a religiously themed bio flick. Of course, it helps to already be a Big Dogen Zenji fan!)

It really has some scenes that, for me, were worth the price of admission. For example, it had the famous lines in which Dogen is asked, after he returns to Japan, what insight he gained in China (and had his "enlightenment" and such) ... he said, "I have come back empty-handed. I have realized only that the eyes are horizontal and the nose is vertical."

It also has a few wonderful scenes in which Dogen, after his "Enlightenment", sheds tears when encountering sadness, like the death of a small child. That's actually a big deal scene, because a lot of Buddhists might think that someone so-called "fully enlightened" should not be crying and feeling tragedy, and would be beyond all such emotions (that is a most common belief in many schools of Buddhism). In fact, Dogen taught that the human heart is right at the heart of the matter!

Okay, there were a couple of cheezy scenes that I put down to the filmmaker's imagination, like the psychodelic animation used to show his moment of "Satori" ... he flies into the sky on an anime pink lotus flower. Hmmm.

But, that was compensated for by the rest of the film, which brought Dogen back down to earth. He spends most of the film teaching such things as "Things Just As They Are (ari-ga-mama)" and "Zazen is not about Satori, Zazen is just to sit!" ... Sound familiar??? :wink:

I give it Five Buddhas! x 5

Gassho, J
stlah

[IanSmith]

Four Buddhas from me.
Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter… and Spring is also a wonderful movie, highly recommended.

Gassho
Ian

[Shoshin]

Lovely film. Here is my "beyond likes and dislikes" review from awhile back.

Yes, I think it historically accurate or, at least, in line with the official story and what is known about him. It does not seem to take many exaggerations or liberties, although I do not care for the "flying pink lotus" enlightenment scene ...

~~~

Re: New Master Dogen Movie

Hello from the Balcony ...

I was finally able to see the movie ... and (though Master Dogen advises during the film that we best drop all thought of "good" and "bad") ... the movie was GOOD!! (especially for a religiously themed bio flick. Of course, it helps to already be a Big Dogen Zenji fan!)

It really has some scenes that, for me, were worth the price of admission. For example, it had the famous lines in which Dogen is asked, after he returns to Japan, what insight he gained in China (and had his "enlightenment" and such) ... he said, "I have come back empty-handed. I have realized only that the eyes are horizontal and the nose is vertical."

It also has a few wonderful scenes in which Dogen, after his "Enlightenment", sheds tears when encountering sadness, like the death of a small child. That's actually a big deal scene, because a lot of Buddhists might think that someone so-called "fully enlightened" should not be crying and feeling tragedy, and would be beyond all such emotions (that is a most common belief in many schools of Buddhism). In fact, Dogen taught that the human heart is right at the heart of the matter!

Okay, there were a couple of cheezy scenes that I put down to the filmmaker's imagination, like the psychodelic animation used to show his moment of "Satori" ... he flies into the sky on an anime pink lotus flower. Hmmm.

But, that was compensated for by the rest of the film, which brought Dogen back down to earth. He spends most of the film teaching such things as "Things Just As They Are (ari-ga-mama)" and "Zazen is not about Satori, Zazen is just to sit!" ... Sound familiar??? :wink:

I give it Five Buddhas! x 5

Gassho, J
stlah

Thanks!
Gassho,
Ester
Satlah

[Shoshin]

Four Buddhas from me.
Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter… and Spring is also a wonderful movie, highly recommended.

Gassho
Ian

Is "Four Buddhas from me" a film? I googled it and I didn't find it :/

I precisely watched "Spring, Summer .." yesterday night.
Although it's absolutely beautifully made, there are scenes in which they inflict harm on real animals (I did some research and it seems that some actually died as a result) and it put me off too much to enjoy the film. As I see it the film unfortunately misses the point of what it is (I believe ) trying to say and it contradicts itself.

I didn't know before watching the film but it seems that the director, Kim Ki-duk, is known for his use of real animals in his films, including this one.

Thanks for the recommendation, thought. I can understand why you liked it that much. It's really well written, directed, acted and filmed. If it wasn't for the ethical objections I would consider it a masterpiece.

Gassho,
Ester
Satlah

[IanSmith]

I agree the ethical objection casts a shadow over a fine movie. However as Peter coyote roshi said "we have to have a conservation with ourselves about where we draw the line." My understanding is that the precepts are guides on the path to leading an ethical life. We do the best we can. For my sins I adore wagner, the music is wonderful and so moving. , yet as we all know he was a raving antisemite.
Gassho
Ian

[IanSmith]

The there's Nansen, did he really kill the cat?

[IanSmith]

PS the " four Buddhas for me" was my rating fot the movie Zen, after Jundo gave it five Buddhas. Not a movie recommendation. Sorry if my language was ambiguous.
Gassho
Ian

[Shoshin]

I agree the ethical objection casts a shadow over a fine movie. However as Peter coyote roshi said "we have to have a conservation with ourselves about where we draw the line." My understanding is that the precepts are guides on the path to leading an ethical life. We do the best we can. For my sins I adore wagner, the music is wonderful and so moving. , yet as we all know he was a raving antisemite.
Gassho
Ian

Thanks for engaging

I agree that we need to draw the line somewhere. I kill mosquitoes and ticks, for example. It's sad for me but I do it.
But I won't hurt (or support anyone else hurting) any being capable of feeling pain and fear (i.e all vertebrates and many invertebrates ) for the shake of art or sensory pleasure.

Regarding art: for me, when supporting an artist who's ethical values are different from mine, the question is "am I, by supporting this artist, being inconsistent with my values and supporting actions that clash against my values?"
So, for example I won't go to the cinema to watch a film if I know that to make this particular film they abused animals. Because in doing so I am "voting " for this practices to continue in the industry.
But would I watch a film by a director that doesn't use animals in their films but that I know that they are not vegan? Yes, I would, because by watching their films I'm not supporting any animal abuse.

How do you feel about what I said?

Gassho
Ester
Satlah

[Shoshin]

The there's Nansen, did he really kill the cat?

The cat in the film?
I don't think so. Although it was very nasty the way they used it as a pencil.
It seems to me that they really hurt the fishes, frog and the snakes.


Gassho,
Ester
Satlah

[Shoshin]

PS the " four Buddhas for me" was my rating fot the movie Zen, after Jundo gave it five Buddhas. Not a movie recommendation. Sorry if my language was ambiguous.
Gassho
Ian

Aaah of course. Sorry!!
Gassho,
Ester
Satlah

[IanSmith]

I think I possibly agree with you in the examples you give, I'll have to think about it ( thats my philosopher head talking),but perhaps we have to examine theses things on a case by case basis. Then maybe you and I might draw the line in the same place, we might not.
As fo Nansen cat it's a famous koan in "The Gateless
GATE" by Mumon case 14, Nansen cuts the cat in two.
You'll find it online.

Gassho
Ian