[Neurodiverse] sharing insights about Neurodivergence

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  • Adel
    Member
    • May 2025
    • 25

    [Neurodiverse] sharing insights about Neurodivergence

    Hello beautiful souls
    I’m new here and feeling deeply grateful to have found this community of kindred spirits.

    As someone navigating life with ADHD and neurodivergence, I’ve been drawn to the quiet depth of zazen—sitting meditation—and the teachings around it. But as you might imagine, stillness and focus don’t always come easily.

    I’d really love to hear from those of you who’ve been walking this path for a while: what gentle practices, perspectives, or little tricks have you discovered over the years that help you stay connected to zazen and the study of it, especially with a neurodivergent mind?

    Thank you for being here. It means more than words can say.

    Gassho,
    Adel
    Last edited by Jundo; 06-08-2025, 02:34 PM.
  • Seiga
    Member
    • Nov 2019
    • 154

    #2
    Dear Adel,

    Nice to have you here. As far as I'm concerned, the "secret tricks" are very simple: sit regularly, don't dwell too much on the past. And don't plan more for the future than you have to out of responsibility for yourself and those you care about.

    That is my very personal opinion as someone who is currently stumbling across this as a layman.

    Gasshō
    Seiga
    satlah

    Comment

    • Onsho
      Member
      • Aug 2022
      • 269

      #3
      Kinhin is every bit as valid as zazen. If the slow walk keeps you in the zone better than sitting, its a great way to practice if you need to move around a bit.

      Sitting does not have to go well. Just sit. The point is sitting. Focused or distracted wont give you a better or worse grade.

      A lot of my daily practice is samu. (working zazen) What i do for a living allows me to melt into my work and mindfully witness life unfolding around me. Intentional samu is wonderful for my ADHD brain.

      There are tips in Zazen Yojinki for sitting that can be really useful until you get a couple hundred hours of sitting under your belt. When i need something to help me along i will feel the light pressure of my thumbs touching or hold my focus an inch in front of my nose.

      Keep at it! You got this. Keeping the habit of sitting is the hardest part.

      Gassho
      Onsho
      satlah

      Comment

      • Adel
        Member
        • May 2025
        • 25

        #4
        Originally posted by Onsho
        Kinhin is every bit as valid as zazen. If the slow walk keeps you in the zone better than sitting, its a great way to practice if you need to move around a bit.

        Sitting does not have to go well. Just sit. The point is sitting. Focused or distracted wont give you a better or worse grade.

        A lot of my daily practice is samu. (working zazen) What i do for a living allows me to melt into my work and mindfully witness life unfolding around me. Intentional samu is wonderful for my ADHD brain.

        There are tips in Zazen Yojinki for sitting that can be really useful until you get a couple hundred hours of sitting under your belt. When i need something to help me along i will feel the light pressure of my thumbs touching or hold my focus an inch in front of my nose.

        Keep at it! You got this. Keeping the habit of sitting is the hardest part.

        Gassho
        Onsho
        satlah
        Wow, very interesting insights
        Thank you so much for sharing this with me

        you have said "Focused or distracted wont give you a better or worse grade" I want to ask you to elaborate more on this statement cuz when i practice I always do something (cognitive defusion which I see my thoughts come and go without getting hooked by them or acceptance which I notice my feelings and I try to breathe into them and expand around and allow them or I count my breaths to be in the present moment, so I thought I always should do something like what I have learnt in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy however, you mention it doesn't matter if I am distracted or focused, can you elaborate more on that. when you sit what you do specifically or you just sit even when you are fused with your thoughts and metal formation?

        Comment

        • Adel
          Member
          • May 2025
          • 25

          #5
          Originally posted by Seiga
          Dear Adel,

          Nice to have you here. As far as I'm concerned, the "secret tricks" are very simple: sit regularly, don't dwell too much on the past. And don't plan more for the future than you have to out of responsibility for yourself and those you care about.

          That is my very personal opinion as someone who is currently stumbling across this as a layman.

          Gasshō
          Seiga
          satlah
          Thank you so much for sharing this with me
          I like how you see it a very simple practice without complications
          you inspired me to to start thinking about this way

          Comment

          • Kokuu
            Dharma Transmitted Priest
            • Nov 2012
            • 7246

            #6
            Hi Adel!

            That is a great question and you have got some good answers already.

            I have not been diagnosed with ADHD but two of my adult children have an I am similar to them. I totally echo what Seiga and Onsho say - sitting regularly, even if you only do short periods, is the best thing, and practice does not end on the cushion. You can equally embody the attitude of Zazen in daily tasks as samu (work) practice and walking meditation, both of which may be easier for someone neurodivergent than just sitting.

            I recently asked this question in a Facebook group on inclusion and diversity, and one answer I really liked, which is similar to Onsho's concentration on the feel of the hands in dhyana mudra, is holding a stone in that mudra which leads to a sense of being more grounded in the body.

            One good thing is that in our goalless practice, there can be benefits, and research on mindfulness suggests that sitting practice can be really helpful for developing focus in people with ADHD. I have certainly found this to be so.

            Mindfulness meditation trains attention control and emotion regulation - areas of deficit in ADHD. Regular practice shows promise for reducing inattentive symptoms and impulsivity. Though more evidence is still needed, this affordable, accessible therapy empowers individuals with ADHD to improve their own functioning.


            Welcome to Treeleaf. You are among friends here, both neurotypical and neurodivergent.

            Gassho
            Kokuu
            -sattoday/lah-

            Comment

            • Onsho
              Member
              • Aug 2022
              • 269

              #7
              Originally posted by Adel

              Wow, very interesting insights
              Thank you so much for sharing this with me

              you have said "Focused or distracted wont give you a better or worse grade" I want to ask you to elaborate more on this statement cuz when i practice I always do something (cognitive defusion which I see my thoughts come and go without getting hooked by them or acceptance which I notice my feelings and I try to breathe into them and expand around and allow them or I count my breaths to be in the present moment, so I thought I always should do something like what I have learnt in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy however, you mention it doesn't matter if I am distracted or focused, can you elaborate more on that. when you sit what you do specifically or you just sit even when you are fused with your thoughts and metal formation?
              I would be happy to elaborate. Keep in mind i'm not a teacher and I welcome correction.

              Shikintaza is a verb. Its a physical thing you do, not a mental thing you do.

              It is not meditation, meditation has an object of mind involved whether you are practicing doing certain thing or not doing a certain thing.

              We leave the mind out. it can do as it pleases in the meantime.

              Here is a super important text from the Soto founder Dogan, its short, give it a read through right now.

              by Eihei Dōgen, (19 January 1200 – 22 September 1253) Founder of the Sōtō school of Zen in Japan. (Translated by Dan Welch and Kazuaki Tanahashi) Practicing Zen is zazen. For zazen a quiet place is…


              "Zazen is not thinking of good, not thinking of bad. It is not conscious endeavor. It is not introspection."
              "Zazen is not learning to do concentration. It is the dharma gate of great ease and joy. It is undefiled practice-enlightenment."

              Your mind will wonder. That's fine. Its all part of it. Let it, but don't encourage it.

              I could go off for a while here but meaning gets lost in words. Let me know how this resonates with you, it could be helpful to report back your findings.

              Gassho,
              Onsho
              satlah

              Comment

              • Bion
                Senior Priest-in-Training
                • Aug 2020
                • 5555

                #8
                Originally posted by Onsho

                Shikintaza is a verb. Its a physical thing you do, not a mental thing you do.
                I’d say body-mind, not just physical and not just mental. It is the entirety of “this person” that is offered to zazen and zazen takes care of itself.
                At least as far as I understand it.

                Gassho
                sat lah
                "A person should train right here & now.
                Whatever you know as discordant in the world,
                don't, for its sake, act discordantly,
                for that life, the enlightened say, is short." - The Buddha

                Comment

                • Adel
                  Member
                  • May 2025
                  • 25

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Kokuu
                  Hi Adel!

                  That is a great question and you have got some good answers already.

                  I have not been diagnosed with ADHD but two of my adult children have an I am similar to them. I totally echo what Seiga and Onsho say - sitting regularly, even if you only do short periods, is the best thing, and practice does not end on the cushion. You can equally embody the attitude of Zazen in daily tasks as samu (work) practice and walking meditation, both of which may be easier for someone neurodivergent than just sitting.

                  I recently asked this question in a Facebook group on inclusion and diversity, and one answer I really liked, which is similar to Onsho's concentration on the feel of the hands in dhyana mudra, is holding a stone in that mudra which leads to a sense of being more grounded in the body.

                  One good thing is that in our goalless practice, there can be benefits, and research on mindfulness suggests that sitting practice can be really helpful for developing focus in people with ADHD. I have certainly found this to be so.

                  Mindfulness meditation trains attention control and emotion regulation - areas of deficit in ADHD. Regular practice shows promise for reducing inattentive symptoms and impulsivity. Though more evidence is still needed, this affordable, accessible therapy empowers individuals with ADHD to improve their own functioning.


                  Welcome to Treeleaf. You are among friends here, both neurotypical and neurodivergent.

                  Gassho
                  Kokuu
                  -sattoday/lah-
                  Hello KoKuu,

                  I really find your input helpful and insightful and I also took some notes
                  Thank you so much for helping me
                  I really appreciate that

                  Comment

                  • Onsho
                    Member
                    • Aug 2022
                    • 269

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bion

                    I’d say body-mind, not just physical and not just mental. It is the entirety of “this person” that is offered to zazen and zazen takes care of itself.
                    At least as far as I understand it.

                    Gassho
                    sat lah
                    Yes! Thanks B.

                    Body and mind are each other. If you practice the posture, the mind will follow.

                    Gassho
                    Onsho
                    satlah

                    Comment

                    • Adel
                      Member
                      • May 2025
                      • 25

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Onsho

                      I would be happy to elaborate. Keep in mind i'm not a teacher and I welcome correction.

                      Shikintaza is a verb. Its a physical thing you do, not a mental thing you do.

                      It is not meditation, meditation has an object of mind involved whether you are practicing doing certain thing or not doing a certain thing.

                      We leave the mind out. it can do as it pleases in the meantime.

                      Here is a super important text from the Soto founder Dogan, its short, give it a read through right now.

                      by Eihei Dōgen, (19 January 1200 – 22 September 1253) Founder of the Sōtō school of Zen in Japan. (Translated by Dan Welch and Kazuaki Tanahashi) Practicing Zen is zazen. For zazen a quiet place is…


                      "Zazen is not thinking of good, not thinking of bad. It is not conscious endeavor. It is not introspection."
                      "Zazen is not learning to do concentration. It is the dharma gate of great ease and joy. It is undefiled practice-enlightenment."

                      Your mind will wonder. That's fine. Its all part of it. Let it, but don't encourage it.

                      I could go off for a while here but meaning gets lost in words. Let me know how this resonates with you, it could be helpful to report back your findings.

                      Gassho,
                      Onsho
                      satlah
                      Hello Onsho,


                      Thank you my buddy for all the help



                      I got the meaning but let me ask you a question to really see if I grasp the point

                      (what is your reaction when your mind wonders during the practice?

                      do you react or observe or ignore and grab your attention to the present moment again or or ....)

                      (Is it a practice of not practicing anything ? )

                      I think this question can help me deepen my understanding


                      Gassho,
                      Adel,

                      Comment

                      • Adel
                        Member
                        • May 2025
                        • 25

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bion

                        I’d say body-mind, not just physical and not just mental. It is the entirety of “this person” that is offered to zazen and zazen takes care of itself.
                        At least as far as I understand it.

                        Gassho
                        sat lah
                        Hello Bion ,

                        Thank you so much for your reply. I liked the Buddha quote so much
                        Thanks for sharing it

                        Could you just tell me a little more about this statement (this person” that is offered to zazen and zazen takes care of itself)

                        Does it mean I just sit and see what happens without extra efforts by my side


                        Gassho
                        Adel

                        Comment

                        • Bion
                          Senior Priest-in-Training
                          • Aug 2020
                          • 5555

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Onsho

                          Yes! Thanks B.

                          Body and mind are each other. If you practice the posture, the mind will follow.

                          Gassho
                          Onsho
                          satlah
                          Assuming one can assume the prescribed posture.

                          Gassho
                          sat lah
                          "A person should train right here & now.
                          Whatever you know as discordant in the world,
                          don't, for its sake, act discordantly,
                          for that life, the enlightened say, is short." - The Buddha

                          Comment

                          • Bion
                            Senior Priest-in-Training
                            • Aug 2020
                            • 5555

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Adel

                            Hello Bion ,

                            Thank you so much for your reply. I liked the Buddha quote so much
                            Thanks for sharing it

                            Could you just tell me a little more about this statement (this person” that is offered to zazen and zazen takes care of itself)

                            Does it mean I just sit and see what happens without extra efforts by my side


                            Gassho
                            Adel
                            Hi, Adel! I used ”this person”, in between quotes, to highlight that it is important to familiarize ourselves with what it means to be “this person” that I am. To understand the relationship between all the things that bring this “me” into existence: physical body and its elements, the senses, the mind processing… It is all of that that is engaged in zazen. That’s why I mentioned body-mind to Onsho, rather than just body, or the physical aspect.

                            And yes… we just sit and we just happen. We actively keep whatever posture we assume, as possible and needed, keep our eyes open, breathe naturally through our nose and we let go of directed thinking ( no inner monologues, no need for judgments, ideas of right or wrong, like and dislike, no latching on to thoughts and developing them into mental situations we get lost into). Jundo Roshi also always highlights the radical equanimity component of shikantaza.

                            Even as I attempt this unskillful reply to you, I still feel words fail to capture it My apologies.

                            Gassho
                            sat lah
                            "A person should train right here & now.
                            Whatever you know as discordant in the world,
                            don't, for its sake, act discordantly,
                            for that life, the enlightened say, is short." - The Buddha

                            Comment

                            • Adel
                              Member
                              • May 2025
                              • 25

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bion

                              Hi, Adel! I used ”this person”, in between quotes, to highlight that it is important to familiarize ourselves with what it means to be “this person” that I am. To understand the relationship between all the things that bring this “me” into existence: physical body and its elements, the senses, the mind processing… It is all of that that is engaged in zazen. That’s why I mentioned body-mind to Onsho, rather than just body, or the physical aspect.

                              And yes… we just sit and we just happen. We actively keep whatever posture we assume, as possible and needed, keep our eyes open, breathe naturally through our nose and we let go of directed thinking ( no inner monologues, no need for judgments, ideas of right or wrong, like and dislike, no latching on to thoughts and developing them into mental situations we get lost into). Jundo Roshi also always highlights the radical equanimity component of shikantaza.

                              Even as I attempt this unskillful reply to you, I still feel words fail to capture it My apologies.

                              Gassho
                              sat lah
                              But you really clarified it more this time, great explaining and I am gonna leave it to Zazen itself to teach me the rest

                              Also I need to give more attention to the teaching of no self since It is key here

                              Thank you so much for helping me


                              Gassho,
                              Adel,

                              Comment

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