[Neurodiverse] Drifting Away

[Onki]

Hey All!

I was thinking about something that I thought I would share. As someone with ADHD, I rely heavily on my ADHD specific medication in order to help me function throughout the day. I have the subtype combination ADHD: inattentive and hyperactive/impulsive. I know if I don’t take my medication I am unable to focus, take in information well, or hold information, not to mention physically feeling drained and spaced out.

Using practice to Be Here helps but not as much as I would like at times. I find myself constantly drifting away, realizing this, and needing to return to Right Now.

Does anyone else experience this? What do you do when this occurs?

Gasshō,

On

[Hosui]

Thanks for sharing, Onki.

I’ve never experienced your condition but still feel close to you and it. Didn’t Dogen talk about “making the right mistake” (shoshaku jushaku)?

Gassho
Hosui
sat/lah today

[Kokuu]

Using practice to Be Here helps but not as much as I would like at times. I find myself constantly drifting away, realizing this, and needing to return to Right Now.

Does anyone else experience this? What do you do when this occurs?

Hi Onki

i probably have ADHD, it is not diagnosed but I am very much like my two children who do have it.

Drifting away happens to me often too, and it seems to me just like when it happens in sitting - we notice and then come back to what is right here now.

Zen is life as it is right now, and that includes being neurodiverse. The drifting away isn't wrong, it is just who you are. Working with it using medication and practice seems like a good idea but there is also the case that what is happening is just what is happening and that is okay.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Myo-jin]

Hi Onki,

Thanks for sharing. My brother was diagnosed with ADHD a while ago, and we are very similar in the ways you describe. I’ve never medicated but over the years we both developed strategies to deal with basically being a space-cadet much of the time.

on a daily basis I either hyper focus or I’m not focussed at all, and just ask my wife about me forgetting things!

I find zazen, not so much an antidote, but a practice that includes my natural inattentivemess. This makes Shikan-taza a tough call, because within a few seconds my mind has wandered off from the moment as it’s. And yet, that’s the way it is for me, so even sitting with that as it is becomes the practice.

of course there’s always the though, I’m doing it wrong, or invent do it, but what else is there to do except sit with that too.

gassho

M.

[Taigen]

Using practice to Be Here helps but not as much as I would like at times. I find myself constantly drifting away, realizing this, and needing to return to Right Now.

Hey Onki,

Thank you for sharing your experience! What you’re describing here is basically how I experience practice. Drift away and come back, drift away and come back. I missed a formal ADHD diagnosis by one point (needed 61 and got 60) and since then I’ve been trying to be kinder to myself about my practice looking like this. This is just how my brain works and sitting with what is means sitting with this too.

That being said, I’ll also say in general, if I’m having a hard time focusing on a task, whether it’s at work or home, it usually means I’m understimulated by the task and need to up the input. That might mean a fidget or acupressure ring, it might mean music, it might mean rewarding myself every time I finish a page, etc.. I think a lot about animals in enclosures, they need mental and physical enrichment and stimulation in order to be happy and do their normal animal things. If I’m struggling to show up and focus, maybe the problem’s not me, maybe I just need more enrichment in my enclosure? Possibly silly, but thinking about it this way really helped me!

Gassho,
Taigen
satlah

[Bion]

Hey All!

I was thinking about something that I thought I would share. As someone with ADHD, I rely heavily on my ADHD specific medication in order to help me function throughout the day. I have the subtype combination ADHD: inattentive and hyperactive/impulsive. I know if I don’t take my medication I am unable to focus, take in information well, or hold information, not to mention physically feeling drained and spaced out.

Using practice to Be Here helps but not as much as I would like at times. I find myself constantly drifting away, realizing this, and needing to return to Right Now.

Does anyone else experience this? What do you do when this occurs?

Gasshō,

On

Sounds quite challenging, and luckily, as you also point out, nowadays there's medication to help! I don't have even a superficial understanding of any of these conditions, but the humble thing I can offer is some of the medicine the Buddha himself offered, and, luckily, he was mighty good about issues of the mind

There is this story of a cook in the Sutras, who, while serving many dishes to his master daily, always paid attention and took note of what things his master enjoyed more of each day. He was rewarded for that with gifts, clothing and wages. The Buddha compared that with a practitioner who takes note of what afflicts the mind (the master), what leads to concentration or distraction and what ultimately leads to a pleasant or unpleasant state. He pointed to the fact that there are different ways in which one can tackle the different hindrances arising in the mind, and I find that to be extremely useful and skillful, cause the mind is so fluid and dynamic that it requires lots of discernment to keep in check when necessary. Drifting away is inevitable, and the Buddha not only acknowledges that, but makes it a point to teach on how to tackle that (in meditation) but, I think it can really be applied off the cushion as well, which is where our lives mostly happen.
Observing the thoughts that take us away is useful, observing the ones that make us restless or anxious, or sad, feeding the ones that lead to calm and concentration, combatting hateful thoughts with metta, lustful thoughts with scrutinizing the drawbacks of them .. etc. In a way, I think it's like the little things master Dogen or master Keizan teach regarding one who is struggling in zazen: when sleepy, flutter the eyes, or take long breaths, or find your breath in your awareness, place the awareness in your palms, think of a mantra in the mind etc I interpret it as being proactive in leading the mind to calm and concentration, rather than being dragged around by it to all the harmful places it tends to go to, especially when that is one's biggest struggle. Though not explicitly calling it mindfulness practice, one can easily see that when master Dogen writes Tenzo Kyoukun he points to unhindered attention to what is right in front of us. NO DOUBT in my mind that that needs to be developed with effort and in time, so we're all in the same boat here, as not being THERE YET. But... if one vividly relives something from 3 years ago, they will burn the rice, spill the sugar, sprinkle too much salt etc However, if one stays counting grains, entertains thoughts of gratitude and appreciation, pours oneself into the task rather than into one's mind, more often than not, one is rewarded with a peaceful abiding here & now..
I don't know in what way these kinds of practices mesh with modern approaches to things like ADHD, but I am sure they can't hurt.

Sorry for speaking out of ignorance and for running this long.

Gassho
sat lah

[Huichan]

Using practice to Be Here helps but not as much as I would like at times. I find myself constantly drifting away, realizing this, and needing to return to Right Now.

Quite a lot of Buddhists would say this is the practice. Coming back to this again and again and again. How many times you do it isn't important but just keep realising and coming back.


慧禅
stlah

[Onki]

Thanks for sharing, Onki.

I’ve never experienced your condition but still feel close to you and it. Didn’t Dogen talk about “making the right mistake” (shoshaku jushaku)?

Gassho
Hosui
sat/lah today

Hi Hosui!

You are absolutely correct! I did a little digging and found this:

Suzuki Roshi in Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind, page 39:

“When we reflect on what we are doing in our everyday life, we are always ashamed of ourselves. One of my students wrote to me saying, "You sent me a calendar, and I am trying to follow the good mottos which appear on each page. But the year has hardly begun, and already I have failed!'' Dogen-zenji said, ''Shoshaku jushaku.'' Shaku generally means "mistake" or "wrong." Shoshaku jushaku means "to succeed wrong with wrong," or one continuous mistake. According to Dogen, one continuous mistake can also be Zen. A Zen master's life could be said to be so many years of shoshaku jushaku. This means so many years of one single-minded effort.”

As I read this I think about mistakes being practice itself.

Shohaku Okumura has said “one continuous mistake” is paraphrased from Dogen’s fascicle Gyobutsu Igi:


“進歩也錯、退歩也錯、一歩也錯、両歩也錯なるがゆゑに錯錯なり。
Stepping forward is a mistake; stepping backward is also a mistake, taking one step is a mistake, taking two steps is also a mistake; therefore one mistake after another mistake. [Whatever we say is a mistake.]

“天地懸隔するがゆゑに至道無難なり。
Because the separation is as great as that between heaven and earth, the ultimate Way is not difficult.

“威儀儀威、大道體寛と究竟すべし。
We should conclude that dignified conduct is conducting dignity, and the essence of the great Way is boundless.”

I suppose Life is full of mistake after mistake after mistake. I think that’s the point. If we didn’t make any mistakes, how would we learn? How would we be able to delve deeper into the Dharma?

Each day is one continuous mistake.

Thank you, Hosui.

Gasshō,

On

[Onki]

Hi Onki

i probably have ADHD, it is not diagnosed but I am very much like my two children who do have it.

Drifting away happens to me often too, and it seems to me just like when it happens in sitting - we notice and then come back to what is right here now.

Zen is life as it is right now, and that includes being neurodiverse. The drifting away isn't wrong, it is just who you are. Working with it using medication and practice seems like a good idea but there is also the case that what is happening is just what is happening and that is okay.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

Hi Kokuu!

You are very much correct. Things are as they are, no need to change anything. If this is part of myself, no need to push it away or try to silence it. Simply be with it. And that’s okay.

Thank you for the reminder, my friend.

Gasshō,

On

[Onki]

Sounds quite challenging, and luckily, as you also point out, nowadays there's medication to help! I don't have even a superficial understanding of any of these conditions, but the humble thing I can offer is some of the medicine the Buddha himself offered, and, luckily, he was mighty good about issues of the mind

There is this story of a cook in the Sutras, who, while serving many dishes to his master daily, always paid attention and took note of what things his master enjoyed more of each day. He was rewarded for that with gifts, clothing and wages. The Buddha compared that with a practitioner who takes note of what afflicts the mind (the master), what leads to concentration or distraction and what ultimately leads to a pleasant or unpleasant state. He pointed to the fact that there are different ways in which one can tackle the different hindrances arising in the mind, and I find that to be extremely useful and skillful, cause the mind is so fluid and dynamic that it requires lots of discernment to keep in check when necessary. Drifting away is inevitable, and the Buddha not only acknowledges that, but makes it a point to teach on how to tackle that (in meditation) but, I think it can really be applied off the cushion as well, which is where our lives mostly happen.
Observing the thoughts that take us away is useful, observing the ones that make us restless or anxious, or sad, feeding the ones that lead to calm and concentration, combatting hateful thoughts with metta, lustful thoughts with scrutinizing the drawbacks of them .. etc. In a way, I think it's like the little things master Dogen or master Keizan teach regarding one who is struggling in zazen: when sleepy, flutter the eyes, or take long breaths, or find your breath in your awareness, place the awareness in your palms, think of a mantra in the mind etc I interpret it as being proactive in leading the mind to calm and concentration, rather than being dragged around by it to all the harmful places it tends to go to, especially when that is one's biggest struggle. Though not explicitly calling it mindfulness practice, one can easily see that when master Dogen writes Tenzo Kyoukun he points to unhindered attention to what is right in front of us. NO DOUBT in my mind that that needs to be developed with effort and in time, so we're all in the same boat here, as not being THERE YET. But... if one vividly relives something from 3 years ago, they will burn the rice, spill the sugar, sprinkle too much salt etc However, if one stays counting grains, entertains thoughts of gratitude and appreciation, pours oneself into the task rather than into one's mind, more often than not, one is rewarded with a peaceful abiding here & now..
I don't know in what way these kinds of practices mesh with modern approaches to things like ADHD, but I am sure they can't hurt.

Sorry for speaking out of ignorance and for running this long.

Gassho
sat lah

Hi Bion!

Thank you for sharing this. You do make some very valid points.

When I do drift away however that may be: thoughts, hyperfocusing on things that are not the current task that needs done, getting lost and forgetting what I need to accomplish, being “time blind (the inability to understand the concept of time and how long projects realistically take me to complete and factoring in that time), memory loss”, etc I do acknowledge what it is I am feeling and why (though there are times where I don’t have any answers to these questions). A lot of the time I am not purposely trying to avoid doing tasks.

I often ask myself, “Am I trying to avoid doing this task? Am I worried that if I do this task I will look silly or worse (in my mind) fail?”

I find myself drifting away several times a day. Despite this happening, I am aware that I do this most of the time. When I realize what is happening I notice, breathe, and attempt to go back to what I was originally doing while being fully present.

As for being proactive, I understand what you are saying. In a perfect world this would solve a lot of what many neurodiverse folks struggle with. I do utilize and see the benefits in putting strategies in place that help me with distraction and such like setting timers (these sometimes work), making lists of things that need done, using an app that will alert me when I need to begin a task, being held accountable, etc.

If my mind is stuck thinking of past things I COULD have done, SHOULD have done, I am missing what is RIGHT HERE in front of me. The same goes for worrying about the future of what COULD happen, what I WANT to happen.

Gasshō,

On