[HEALTH] Addiction question

[Bob-Midwest]

Relatively new here.
Are there postings/discussions on the topic of addiction/compulsive behaviors and our Zazen/Zen practice?
Looking for further tools, perspectives for this part of life.
Gasho ahead of time for all.
bob

[Bion]

Hi, Bob. I don't think there's an ongoing discussion on the topic, but the archives have a few discussions on the topic. Maybe this topic can be the invitation for sangha members to a discussion on this topic, see if they might have some insights that could be useful to you. I moved your question to the Health sub forum, by the way,
I used to be a smoker, addicted to nicotine, I don't know if that counts.

Gassho
sat lah

[FNJ]

I was a big drinker in my 20s and 30s... I smoked till age 32... My poor body ... But I do find sitting has helped as a natural way to deal with compulsions and what sometimes underlies them... I find the way that our medical system and society deals with actual drugs versus process addictions (like gambling) to be very confusing.

Also I continue to find how we parse our identity in terms of what we are attracted to and repulsed by, to be problematic. I mean, somethings we can change. Some things we can't. Some of us may die from an opioid overdose. Does that mean we are any less the children of the Buddha?

Sat today, Lah
gassho
Niall

[Bob-Midwest]

My experience over nearly 40 years of meditation and many of those years in Zen has been that meditation alone does not calm my fires of compulsion. In my case, what are known as process or behavioral addition.
This has been the experience of others who expected mediation to be a cure all. There are books out there by these folks.
Twelve step programs have helped, but again have not been a cure all.
Wondering what has worked or not worked for others, who also sit Zazen

[FNJ]

My experience over nearly 40 years of meditation and many of those years in Zen has been that meditation alone does not calm my fires of compulsion. In my case, what are known as process or behavioral addition.
This has been the experience of others who expected mediation to be a cure all. There are books out there by these folks.
Twelve step programs have helped, but again have not been a cure all.
Wondering what has worked or not worked for others, who also sit Zazen

This could be the subtle influence of Tibetan Buddhism in my background in Shambhala but in some cases where a person has an intractable addiction that they cannot change by will alone is where the Vajrayana comes in. Sometimes fighting the compulsion actually causes it to get worse. So there is a need to find a way to give into it, in the least harmful way. I guess this matches up a little bit with a "harm reduction" strategy in the secular world.

The part that always gets me is that the effects of all processes and drugs is its stimulation of the release of endogenous chemicals in the brain. These states and chemical changes that we are seeking are already there. To the extent that we can train ourselves to do anything while sitting on a cushion, can or should we train ourselves to access similar states without drug "help"? No, of course this is not shikantaza as it has a goal, but Buddhist meditation is a pretty big thing and it would be wrong to think that just because we're all sitting there, that we are all doing the same thing.

I suppose the Tibetan and Shambala stuff is a fair bit different in that there 's hundreds of practices one can engage in while sitting. That's part of what brings me here. I found it all a little bit complicated and confusing.

gassho,
Sat today, Lah
Niall

[Jundo]

To the extent that we can train ourselves to do anything while sitting on a cushion, can or should we train ourselves to access similar states without drug "help"? No, of course this is not shikantaza as it has a goal, but Buddhist meditation is a pretty big thing and it would be wrong to think that just because we're all sitting there, that we are all doing the same thing.

But I wonder if that is a good use and goal. Is it better to get a high and kick from meditation, rather than up the nose or from a bottle? I suppose, but then meditation itself can become just another bottle to run into, just another trip or thrill. I do not think it resolves the real problem.

That is why the radical acceptance and equanimity is so precious, neither running toward life nor running away, at the still point neither demanding highs nor running from lows.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Bion]

Wondering what has worked or not worked for others, who also sit Zazen

Sitting Zazen did not make me stop smoking. What sitting zazen did for me was prepare my mind and body to be able to first make the choice to stop smoking and secondly to deal with the effects of that change. The more I sat, the more I was drawn in by the buddhist path, and with that, the path became wider and wider. I clearly saw that I couldn't continue to smoke, I saw my feelings of guilt about doing something so damaging to my body while claiming to follow the Buddha, I saw the suffering it was causing me as I tried to reconcile that addiction with what I knew mentally, and then it broke open. I didn't just sit, clearly. It was a 360 immersion in practicing the Buddha dharma, but I wouldn't have ever gotten there without the relentless daily sitting.

Gassho
sat lah

[Kotishka]

Hi there! Psychologist here practising in Spain^^

Sitting in silent meditation helps strengthen the prefrontal cortex, which is essentially responsible for executive functions. That’s a fancy term for the brain’s “don’t do that” or “not the right moment!” responses—basically, the high command centre. Of course, overcoming an addiction first requires becoming aware of it and accepting that it is a form of suffering or disease. This step is crucial, as it allows you to start engaging with the issue in a meaningful way.

There’s a very interesting approach called Dialectical Behavior Therapy that aligns closely with what Jundo Roshi has explained. I highly recommend looking into it. Its founder, Dr. Marsha Linehan, also practices Zen!

Gassho,
Karlos

SatLah

[Bob-Midwest]

“That is why the radical acceptance and equanimity is so precious, neither running toward life nor running away, at the still point neither demanding highs nor running from lows.”



Can someone direct me to more information on “radical acceptance and equanimity?”
Thanks

[Bion]

“That is why the radical acceptance and equanimity is so precious, neither running toward life nor running away, at the still point neither demanding highs nor running from laws.”



Can someone direct me to more information on “radical acceptance and equanimity?”
Thanks

Hi, BoB. You can have a loot at this talk by Jundo Roshi, on the topic : FIXCEPTANCE>> and also this one: INNER SWITCH>>
Hope these help

Gassho
sat lat

[Onsho]

“That is why the radical acceptance and equanimity is so precious, neither running toward life nor running away, at the still point neither demanding highs nor running from lows.”



Can someone direct me to more information on “radical acceptance and equanimity?”
Thanks

Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach.

She is a Buddhist psychologist.

Gassho
Onsho
satlah

[Kokuu]

“That is why the radical acceptance and equanimity is so precious, neither running toward life nor running away, at the still point neither demanding highs nor running from lows.”



Can someone direct me to more information on “radical acceptance and equanimity?”
Thanks

Tara Brach has a couple of talks on this subject at Dharmaseed:

Radical Acceptance
Practicing Radical Acceptance

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah

[James Bruce]

Bob
I have been a fan of Noah Levine for many years. He has an excellent website refugerecovery.org. They have online meetings. Noah does a once a month zoom talk. I have been sober for 18 years and I attribute a great deal to Refuge Recovery.

Gassho
James
satlah