[HealthDharma] Turning Suffering Inside Out, chapter two, part two

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  • Kokuu
    Treeleaf Priest
    • Nov 2012
    • 6844

    [HealthDharma] Turning Suffering Inside Out, chapter two, part two

    chapter two, part two (p30-39 ‘Enriching Your Life Exponentially’ up to end of chapter)

    Note: after this week we will take a week off to allow people to catch up on any reading and commenting before continuing with the next part of the book.


    Darlene begins this section talking about why it is especially important for people in pain to create a life they love and enjoy. She explains how this leads her to engage totally with her life, even those parts we might consider to be mundane such as washing the dishes. As the Treeleaf motto states, “All of life is our temple.”

    Although illness is not generally seen as a positive thing, it gives us an opportunity to fully engage with our life. Our body is often telling us exactly how it feels in response to each and every action we perform.

    Through careful observation Darlene observed how focussing on different parts of the body at different times (such as the foot that is in the air rather than on the ground) could make a huge difference to her experience of an action. One of her clients also observed that everything that happens to her is information about her body. This kind of curiosity can be harnessed in our practice.

    However, rather than this enquiry being purely functional, Darlene goes on to say that “we must penetrate our anguish and pain so thoroughly that illness and health lose their distinction, allowing us just to live our lives.” This reminds me of the koan in which a monk asks Dongshan (Liangjie), “When we are surrounded by cold or heat, how can we avoid them?”. Dongshan replies, “When it is cold, kill yourself with cold, and when it is hot, kill yourself with heat.” (The Blue Cliff Record, Case 43, Dongshan’s Hot and Cold). In that case, Dongshan is similarly asking us to penetrate hot and cold so thoroughly that we are no longer separated from them.

    She emphasises that illness is not a preparation for anything else, nor a journey to another situation called wellness. It is its own self.

    Darlene next talks about the importance of comfort. She points out that when we are overwhelmed with how we are feeling, it is okay to seek solace. Sometimes that solace will be in directly feeling what is going on in our body, focussing on the sensations rather than the stories in our head, sometimes it will come in the form of distraction and that is okay. We are not failing by taking a break from our pain, but instead seeing the reality that living with chronic pain and illness is hard, and allowing some space away from that. Darlene notes that there is a difference between making that a conscious choice and it being a reactive habit of avoidance.


    Question prompts, although feel free to talk about any part of the reading that you wish:

    1. Would you say you have created a life that you love and enjoy? Has this been hard in terms of your illness or pain?

    2. How do you relate to Darlene talking about finding comfort, both in the centre of pain and suffering, and by using distractions? Do you think you use distraction in a conscious and mindful way or more as a reactive escape?


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
  • Naiko
    Member
    • Aug 2019
    • 842

    #2
    Thank you, Kokuu.

    1. Would you say you have created a life that you love and enjoy? Has this been hard in terms of your illness or pain?
    I would say I am content. That is a very positive change from the despair I felt in 2020 when I was struggling to heal from surgery and its complications, and adapt to my changed circumstances. This is an interesting question. I don’t think I’ve ever dared to think I could love life.

    2. How do you relate to Darlene talking about finding comfort, both in the centre of pain and suffering, and by using distractions? Do you think you use distraction in a conscious and mindful way or more as a reactive escape? I really appreciate her honesty and can relate to the scenarios and emotional ups and downs she describes. I have done both. When I resort to distraction, sometimes it’s mindful. I fear it’s just as often reactive and unconscious.

    Kokuu quoted above: “We must penetrate our anguish and pain so thoroughly that illness and health lose their distinction, allowing us to just live our lives.” I highlighted this and the sentences before it, “But if we practice paying attention to our body mainly to get rid of our suffering or restore an ailing body to functioning rather than to express our life and our nature, it is a very narrow and vulnerable achievement. Just as a clay Buddha cannot go through the water or a wood Buddha cannot go through the fire, a goal-oriented healing practice cannot permeate deeply enough.” This really spoke to me as a practice that leaps beyond the tepid way mindfulness is usually presented.

    Gassho,
    Naiko
    stlah

    Comment

    • Tairin
      Member
      • Feb 2016
      • 2826

      #3
      I just wanted to respond to say I am reading along with the group but as I don’t suffer from any chronic illness, pain, or fatigue I can’t relate to the question prompts. I was a bit surprised by the advice in the “Distraction: Down ‘n Dirty Comfort”. No judgement intended though. I suspect that there are days when any sort of escape feels necessary.


      Tairin
      Sat today and lah
      泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

      Comment

      • Kokuu
        Treeleaf Priest
        • Nov 2012
        • 6844

        #4
        I was a bit surprised by the advice in the “Distraction: Down ‘n Dirty Comfort”. No judgement intended though. I suspect that there are days when any sort of escape feels necessary.
        Yes, it very much comes from the reality of living with a chronic condition. Sometimes it is just overwhelming and you need to take time out. One thing I really like about Darlene is her humanity in admitting this and not making people feel guilty for needing distractions as part of their working with what arises.

        Gassho
        Kokuu
        -sattoday/lah-

        Comment

        • Tairin
          Member
          • Feb 2016
          • 2826

          #5
          Originally posted by Kokuu
          Yes, it very much comes from the reality of living with a chronic condition. Sometimes it is just overwhelming and you need to take time out. One thing I really like about Darlene is her humanity in admitting this and not making people feel guilty for needing distractions as part of their working with what arises.

          Gassho
          Kokuu
          -sattoday/lah-


          Tairin
          Sat today and lah
          泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

          Comment

          • Kokuu
            Treeleaf Priest
            • Nov 2012
            • 6844

            #6
            1. Would you say you have created a life that you love and enjoy? Has this been hard in terms of your illness or pain?
            I would say I am content. That is a very positive change from the despair I felt in 2020 when I was struggling to heal from surgery and its complications, and adapt to my changed circumstances. This is an interesting question. I don’t think I’ve ever dared to think I could love life.
            Content certainly sounds like a good place to land, and definitely a positive upgrade on despair. Do you think you could dare to contemplate loving life in the future or is contentment enough?


            2. How do you relate to Darlene talking about finding comfort, both in the centre of pain and suffering, and by using distractions? Do you think you use distraction in a conscious and mindful way or more as a reactive escape? I really appreciate her honesty and can relate to the scenarios and emotional ups and downs she describes. I have done both. When I resort to distraction, sometimes it’s mindful. I fear it’s just as often reactive and unconscious.
            Yes, I find similarly, and likewise really appreciate Darlene's honesty here. It gives the feeling of someone's real lived experience rather than intellectual understanding.


            “We must penetrate our anguish and pain so thoroughly that illness and health lose their distinction, allowing us to just live our lives.” I highlighted this and the sentences before it, “But if we practice paying attention to our body mainly to get rid of our suffering or restore an ailing body to functioning rather than to express our life and our nature, it is a very narrow and vulnerable achievement. Just as a clay Buddha cannot go through the water or a wood Buddha cannot go through the fire, a goal-oriented healing practice cannot permeate deeply enough.” This really spoke to me as a practice that leaps beyond the tepid way mindfulness is usually presented.
            I really appreciate you highlighting this section, Naiko. That kind of goal-oriented practice may have limited success, but, in my experience, is never going to be enough. By opening ourselves to the totality of experience, we let go of judging pain and pleasure and can be present with the fullness of life without asking it to be other than it is. You can tell she has done her fair share of Shikantaza!


            Gassho
            Kokuu
            -sattoday/lah-

            Comment

            • Alina
              Member
              • Jul 2023
              • 181

              #7
              Thank you Kokuu

              1. Would you say you have created a life that you love and enjoy? Has this been hard in terms of your illness or pain?
              It's a work in progress... a few years ago, while going through a very difficult and demanding time in my life, I realized that I had "a lot of work to do", starting by facing realities that were very painful for me. I'm in a much better place right now, but "not there yet". Zazen, and Sanshin as described in "How to cook your life", is helping me a lot to also focus on the good that is already here, just as it is, while I continue working towards improving "the rest".

              2. How do you relate to Darlene talking about finding comfort, both in the centre of pain and suffering, and by using distractions? Do you think you use distraction in a conscious and mindful way or more as a reactive escape?
              Darlene is so open and honest about her own coping strategies, it's comforting to read it! I use distractions in mindful and mindless ways, both work in those moments

              While reading this part of the book, I wrote in my notes:
              "This (what Darlene discusses in this section) requires to be willing to stop, to be here... and I'm realizing that when I'm "very busy", l am also running away for the present moment and whatever is going on in it..."
              My mindless distractions are definitively about running away from the present moment, I'll try to remember this book the next time I catch myself in that kind of avoidance.


              Gassho
              Alina
              ST+LAH

              Comment

              • Naiko
                Member
                • Aug 2019
                • 842

                #8
                Do you think you could dare to contemplate loving life in the future or is contentment enough?
                I’ve been chewing on this, wondering if that love has strings attached. Does life have “better” or meet certain conditions before I can love life or can I love my life just as it is? Is my contentment contingent too?

                Gassho,
                Naiko
                stlah

                Comment

                • Kokuu
                  Treeleaf Priest
                  • Nov 2012
                  • 6844

                  #9
                  I’ve been chewing on this, wondering if that love has strings attached. Does life have “better” or meet certain conditions before I can love life or can I love my life just as it is? Is my contentment contingent too?
                  That is an interesting question. I guess that it would be unrealistic to think that how we feel about life will be unrelated to our circumstances. That said, it seems to me that Shikantaza is a practice that develops a different relationship to what is happening and can bring about a deep contentment with, and maybe even love for, life which are independent of circumstances, or at least see the ups and downs of life as waves on the sea.

                  Gassho
                  Kokuu
                  -sattoday/lah-

                  Comment

                  • Kokuu
                    Treeleaf Priest
                    • Nov 2012
                    • 6844

                    #10
                    1. Would you say you have created a life that you love and enjoy? Has this been hard in terms of your illness or pain?
                    It's a work in progress... a few years ago, while going through a very difficult and demanding time in my life, I realized that I had "a lot of work to do", starting by facing realities that were very painful for me. I'm in a much better place right now, but "not there yet". Zazen, and Sanshin as described in "How to cook your life", is helping me a lot to also focus on the good that is already here, just as it is, while I continue working towards improving "the rest".
                    Thank you, Alina. I think that you hit the nail on the head in terms of facing realities. It is understandable that we often prefer not to as, like you say, they can be very painful to look at, but it is the way we move into either acceptance or change. I wonder if we are ever 'there' in terms of reaching a good place but focussing on the good that is already here sounds like a very healthy thing, and How to Cook Your Life is a great guide for how to live.


                    2. How do you relate to Darlene talking about finding comfort, both in the centre of pain and suffering, and by using distractions? Do you think you use distraction in a conscious and mindful way or more as a reactive escape?
                    Darlene is so open and honest about her own coping strategies, it's comforting to read it! I use distractions in mindful and mindless ways, both work in those moments
                    Yes, I find her honesty so refreshing, and seeing that we are not failing if we take time out from being with our physical reality.


                    While reading this part of the book, I wrote in my notes:
                    "This (what Darlene discusses in this section) requires to be willing to stop, to be here... and I'm realizing that when I'm "very busy", l am also running away for the present moment and whatever is going on in it..."
                    My mindless distractions are definitively about running away from the present moment, I'll try to remember this book the next time I catch myself in that kind of avoidance.
                    Lovely! It is great to read what parts of the book resonate most with people.

                    Gassho
                    Kokuu
                    -sattoday/lah-

                    Comment

                    • Shonin Risa Bear
                      Member
                      • Apr 2019
                      • 924

                      #11
                      May I? I may be here intermittently.

                      One of my Dharma sisters at Bird Haven was Darlene's student and transferred to Kenshin after her time.

                      1. Would you say you have created a life that you love and enjoy? Has this been hard in terms of your illness or pain?

                      My conditions (slow leukemia, chronic lumbar, knee and ankle deterioration/arthritis, seizures, cardio) have limited my available postures and activities, but the pain levels have been remarkably low considering. We're all three of us depressed here all the time, but that has to do with having lost an irreplaceable family member. What happens is I'm unable to do much or think clearly for a week or so, then I'm fairly able and bright for a week or so. So I tether myself to the moment, not trying to live by a fixed calendar. I would characterize the general mood as patience, with a dollop of regarding contentment as joy of living with a low flame.

                      2. How do you relate to Darlene talking about finding comfort, both in the centre of pain and suffering, and by using distractions? Do you think you use distraction in a conscious and mindful way or more as a reactive escape?

                      You might be surprised at how much anime and manga I consume. In better weather I do try to garden, though lately it seems to be in ten minute increments. What can be more lovely than a tiny baby daikon shouldering its way through the earth crumbs?

                      gassho
                      ds satlah today
                      Visiting priest: use salt

                      Comment

                      • Kaitan
                        Member
                        • Mar 2023
                        • 547

                        #12
                        1. Would you say you have created a life that you love and enjoy? Has this been hard in terms of your illness or pain?

                        It's a difficult question. As Alina said: it's a work in progress. I aim to learn to write popular science, despite not considering myself a good writer and often doubting myself of that possibly. I also would like to go back to sketching and drawing, but I prefer not to force it because I do enjoy it. For the past year I realized how lucky is to have this kind of job here in China (before that I was only thinking of the next job with higher wages or living in a better country), despite not being paid as a full-time job, I started to enjoy it and looking forward to it and at the same time study other areas. Sounds better than it is, but it's something that I appreciate.

                        Yes, it has been hard, but fortunately I try to address unattended areas that have always hindered living my life more consciously.

                        2. How do you relate to Darlene talking about finding comfort, both in the centre of pain and suffering, and by using distractions? Do you think you use distraction in a conscious and mindful way or more as a reactive escape?

                        In some way, yes. Like for example reading topics of my interest are much more conscious forms of escape than playing videogames or numbing with addictive patterns. Again, I would like to nourish drawing and taking photographs. Learning Chinese with an app on the phone is a good transition to more mindful choices.


                        It was very moving the part of the old lady on the wheelchair that came to realize that the whole universe was her medicine. Also when Darlene mentions the giving up using meditation as means to improve myself, otherwise we can't go deeper; however this sounds already like a Koan.

                        Gasshō

                        stlah, Kaitan
                        Last edited by Kaitan; 03-28-2024, 02:26 AM.
                        Kaitan - 界探 - Realm searcher
                        Formerly known as "Bernal"

                        Comment

                        • Brett
                          Member
                          • Mar 2024
                          • 119

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Kokuu
                          chapter two, part two (p30-39 ‘Enriching Your Life Exponentially’ up to end of chapter)

                          1. Would you say you have created a life that you love and enjoy? Has this been hard in terms of your illness or pain?

                          2. How do you relate to Darlene talking about finding comfort, both in the centre of pain and suffering, and by using distractions? Do you think you use distraction in a conscious and mindful way or more as a reactive escape?
                          1. I would say I have finally found some balance and hope from taking a more active role in my own health. This is much harder than can seem as it can be very demoralizing having a chronic illness that is relentless.

                          2. To be completely honest at their start of my problems all I sought out was comfort, and it was an important step to help remain active in trying to figure this out. While others will constantly offer suggestions, it is really up to you to figure out what you need to more than survive but actually try to thrive. Sometimes we view ourselves as above this and that we have been practicing for decades, surely we can do better! But until you are in the situation it is incredibly difficult to cast judgment on others on how they figured out to get through it.

                          Gassho_/\_
                          Brett

                          Comment

                          • Dee Sunyata
                            Member
                            • Jan 2021
                            • 11

                            #14
                            Naiko thank you for your thoughts. I like your emphasis on Darlenes words "a goal-oriented healing practice cannot permeate deeply enough". It makes me realise I often use focus on sensations of breathing to avoid the pain/s of my illnesses. (Still, I suspect that's better than despair, when I can't find equanimity?)

                            Gassho
                            Dee

                            Comment

                            • Dee Sunyata
                              Member
                              • Jan 2021
                              • 11

                              #15
                              Thank you for the summary and prompts Kokuu.
                              Weakness etc prevents me from participating as much as I'd like in reflection and discussion unfortunately.

                              Gassho
                              Dee 🙏

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