[Engaged] The Case of the Tent Village

[Hoseki]

I would probably do nothing as it would literally not be under my job description to handle such issues that were not on-site. I would not interfere to the degree of calling authorities or asking people to move if it literally had nothing to do with my well being, ethics, or employment. If my boss tried to manipulate me into talking to them or calling the cops when my job literally does not go beyond that fence, I am sure that if I am a construction worker, there is a union to call. I am just there to do my job-- not bully people because my boss tells me to.

Also, I am not really a fan of hypothetical discussion outside of the realm of fun or fantasy. I honestly don't really know what I'd do in this situation unless I am someday actually in it. I know from experience that when under stress, I can sometimes approach problems a lot differently than I thought I would.

What is the point of this? It was mentioned that this is a real life scenario, but at the end it was followed up with, "This is meant to be a fun intellectual conversation about how you would react and what action you would take." If this is a real situation for someone you know, I am sure it is not fun, and they are not presented with the option to brainstorm with a bunch of Buddhists. We can all talk about what we think we'd do, but these are EXTREMELY LIMITED viewpoints and a VERY SPECIFIC situation. I am never going to be a construction worker on a job site adjacent to a tent-city with a boss pressuring me to take matters into my own hands. Of course I can try to imagine myself in this scenario, but that is all I can do. Just illusion. Nothing real here. Just postulation. I will never know all the intricacies and day-to-day experiences that a worker in this situation might know that would direct their actions. And if this is based off of a real story from someone, I am more curious about what they actually did and the result, so I can learn from it directly.

Other questions: Am I close to my boss? Am I the foreman? The supervisor? A carpenter? The electrician? Am I living paycheck to paycheck? What country am I in? What state? Do I have a family?

These questions matter. I hope someone sees my point. These kinds of discussions feel like ego-boosting on our own supposed goodness or responsibility.

Sat today, lah

Hi Geika,

While I understand what your saying. I think there is value in this kind of exercise. It can help nurture the seeds of compassion and help us find and develop our values. In a way its like building a ethical compass.

Another way to look at it like practice for the real thing and how someone might tell you how to swim before you get into the water. When it comes time to try and swim putting the instructions into practice probably won't go smoothly at first but with time they can become foundational to ones swimming.

I also think it can help us feel more emboldened to try and assist people in these kinds of situations. Especially when we see that other people feel this way too.

I'm reminded of a quote by Hélder Câmara that I see sometimes that reads "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." I think some of his thinking comes from engaging with poor people and then looking into the conditions that create poverty. Which is one of the things I think is missing in our approach. How is it that we can have such prosperity (needed to build a new building) along side a tent city? Isn't there something wrong about that?

Anywho, I'm also reminded of a Taoist (maybe) story about a man who's horse runs away. When his friends tell him how aweful it it he responds "is that so?" The next day his horse comes back but with a second horse. When his friends say that great he responds "is that so?" There's more but I can't remember right now. The point is sometimes useless things turn out to be very useful and vice versa.

Just a few thoughts.

Gassho
Sattoday
Hoseki




pump priming

[Shoka]

I would probably do nothing as it would literally not be under my job description to handle such issues that were not on-site. I would not interfere to the degree of calling authorities or asking people to move if it literally had nothing to do with my well being, ethics, or employment. If my boss tried to manipulate me into talking to them or calling the cops when my job literally does not go beyond that fence, I am sure that if I am a construction worker, there is a union to call. I am just there to do my job-- not bully people because my boss tells me to.

Also, I am not really a fan of hypothetical discussion outside of the realm of fun or fantasy. I honestly don't really know what I'd do in this situation unless I am someday actually in it. I know from experience that when under stress, I can sometimes approach problems a lot differently than I thought I would.

What is the point of this? It was mentioned that this is a real life scenario, but at the end it was followed up with, "This is meant to be a fun intellectual conversation about how you would react and what action you would take." If this is a real situation for someone you know, I am sure it is not fun, and they are not presented with the option to brainstorm with a bunch of Buddhists. We can all talk about what we think we'd do, but these are EXTREMELY LIMITED viewpoints and a VERY SPECIFIC situation. I am never going to be a construction worker on a job site adjacent to a tent-city with a boss pressuring me to take matters into my own hands. Of course I can try to imagine myself in this scenario, but that is all I can do. Just illusion. Nothing real here. Just postulation. I will never know all the intricacies and day-to-day experiences that a worker in this situation might know that would direct their actions. And if this is based off of a real story from someone, I am more curious about what they actually did and the result, so I can learn from it directly.

Other questions: Am I close to my boss? Am I the foreman? The supervisor? A carpenter? The electrician? Am I living paycheck to paycheck? What country am I in? What state? Do I have a family?

These questions matter. I hope someone sees my point. These kinds of discussions feel like ego-boosting on our own supposed goodness or responsibility.

Sat today, lah

Geika,

I hear you concerns and I’ll try to address why I believe exercises like this can be helpful and important.

Hoseki actually summed up many of the points very well. As he said, part of the point of thinking about these situations and determining how you would react and why is to a way to help us find and develop our values. By having thought about this situation ahead of when/ or if it actually occurs in your life then you have already prepared to response without needing to take the time to go and brainstorm as we are doing here.

As you said, we often act differently in a stressful situation. For example, many people find speaking in public very stressful, so they will prepare ahead of time. They will rehearse their speech and ask friends to ask them follow-up questions so they can practice. This type of conversation is intended to do the same thing. You might never be in this situation, but if you have thought about it in advance when there isn’t related stress; that can hopefully make it easier for you to react in a more informed or thought out way.

Most people will never be in this exact scenario, but there are many people who will face something similar. My sister doesn’t work in construction, she works in coffee. And often faces a very similar situation when a homeless person is perhaps sitting outside the coffeehouse minding their own business and customers are asking her to do something about it. Having talked through the situation beforehand she is armed with a standard response which is ready and rehearsed.

Lastly, thank you for bringing my usage of the word “fun”. That is probably not the best way to describe what the intention of the conversation is and I apologize for framing this conversation with that verbiage.

Thank you for your candid response which hopefully makes many people stop and think about why we do or don’t have conversations like this.

Gassho,

Shoka
sattoday

[Geika]

Thank you, Shoka. Nothing against you, personally, at all, though I know it may have seemed so. I know that you are not passive about engaged work at all!

I see the point of the exercise, and I can see how many people may need some forethought in this kind of situation.

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Shoka]

Thank you, Shoka. Nothing against you, personally, at all, though I know it may have seemed so. I know that you are not passive about engaged work at all!

I see the point of the exercise, and I can see how many people may need some forethought in this kind of situation.

Gassho, sat today, lah

Geika,

I didn't take anything you said as personally against me. I know that when people step up and say "what is the point" it is with the purest of intentions. Honestly, I'm sure there are many other people who have read this and thought "what's the point of this conversation" and didn't say anything. So it's great to to stop and ask those questions.

It also helps me learn to frame the conversation better, which is great as well!

Gassho,

Shoka
sattoday

[Jakuden]

Thanks for the perspective, Geika. This is why there are ethics classes in the curriculum for many professions nowadays, because it helps to have at least some familiarity with how to approach an ethical question in general and to consider a situation from multiple viewpoints. As Buddhists, we have the Precepts to guide us, but it’s not always clear where they point, which is why we discuss them prior to Jukai. I took ethics in school, but it was astounding how much and how quickly attitudes towards topics we had discussed shifted over the years as I was out working! Being able to step back and objectively consider my values and vows allows me to rethink my own beliefs and actions on the fly when needed, instead of getting stuck in the automatic “this is my opinion on this” that seems to be what I hear so often from others.

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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[Ryudo]

Thank you all.

SatToday