Ecodharma: Chapter 3 (part 1)

[Doshin]

Chapter 3: Part One… pages 77 through 88 (beginning of Chapter to The Ecology of Property)

Okay, this reading and some of Chapter 2 are (as I said to Kokuu) deeper into subjects I normally don’t deal with 😊. So please, in the first question below add to my thoughts. I learn from you.

David starts this Chapter with the story of the Buddha and other spiritual leaders who spent time within nature/wilderness which supposedly formed their perspectives. There are many articles today about nature being a place to heal. I have spent much of my life in the wild and relate to this. What stood out to me is that even thousands of years ago when civilization was still young, a distancing from it was seen as conducive to spiritual growth.

“We abuse land because we see it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect” Aldo Leopold

The quote above by Aldo Leopold (a conservationist of the early part of the last Century) is from the Forward of Sand County Almanac. A book I read over 50 years ago and helped to form my views on a land ethic. It came to mind as I read this portion of the Chapter. (A book some of you may appreciate, it was written over 70 years ago). My interpretation of David’s words is that many see nature comprised of utilities, a means to satisfy our desires. The earth provides things for which we grasp, and we see ourselves as separate. Hence my reference back to Aldo Leopold. However, he also points out that not all cultures view the world this way.

I found his point interesting that learning to speak (language) guides us to “perceive” the world as a collection of separate things. He states that.. “language (concepts), which not only divides up the world but organizes it into functions (casual relationships), and the way those functions enable us to act intentionally (e.g., to satisfy desires)”.

What were your takeaways from this section?

Can you think of examples of how language separates us from both the world and each other?

Doshin
st

[aprapti]

i am reading another book too, its Taigen Dan Leighton's book "just this is it" about Dongshan. And these ancient Caodong-masters were searching for what suchness is. They tell us, to hear with our eyes. And if we do so, we can hear Lame Deer's old pot talk to us right about the things that David Loy says about clinging to concepts and functions..



aprapti

sat

[Juki]

I understand the need to go through this convoluted process of describing how using language to create concepts is a root of delusion. After all, it is the use of "I" and "me" as separate from the forest and the mountains that results in our separation from nature and the commodification of nature's bounty. But, isn't jumping through all these intellectual hoops nothing more than the creation of yet another concept? Isn't Loy just conceptualizing the process of conceptualizing?

I mean, we need concepts to organize and streamline the learning process. Loy seems to understand this when he says that our usual ways of living in the world are not bad. As for the separation, just sit, and one day, if you're lucky, you'll see through it.

My favorite thing in this week's reading was the description of meditation as "mind fasting." I had never thought of it that way, but the description is perfect.


Gassho,
Juki
sat today and lah

[Doshin]

My favorite thing in this week's reading was the description of meditation as "mind fasting." I had never thought of it that way, but the description is perfect.


Gassho,
Juki
sat today and lah

Doshin
St

[Naiko]

I enjoyed this chapter (and chapter 2), though it is dense reading. Language creates separation as he describes, and I can see how it throws us into a future orientation but it never has felt very solid to me—it’s an interesting topic that I could read about endlessly. I think Loy’s version of the famous passage from the Daodejing is a neat summary of this chapter so far.

I also took note of the connection between nature and spiritual growth and contemplation. There’s that separation again. I am not other than nature even in the middle of the city, and yet I wonder if I am missing something by not sitting zazen outside as the early Buddhists did. On an even more basic level, how can we feel the land is our community, as Leopold said, if we never go outside? I saw a study sponsored by the EPA which found that people in the US (all ages) spend 93% of their time indoors or in vehicles. I feel like I am stuck inside even more since I began working from home. Contrasting this with the amount of time I spent outside as a child and younger adult gives me a lot to think about. We are starved of natural light and so much more. I have previously doubted the value of Buddhist nature retreats in the face of such a looming climate crisis but I’m rethinking that now.
Gassho,
Naiko
st lah

[DanM]

I spent a bit of time on a train the other day and finally managed to catch up with the readings. I haven't commented on the previous sections but I've read through everyone's comments and really appreciate your contributions.

Can you think of examples of how language separates us from both the world and each other?

Loy's description of how language creates separation and denotes the natural world as something to utilise and exploit showed an important link between Buddhism and environmentalism. Seeing ourselves as 'one' with the natural world, rather than over and above it, should better enable us to live in balance with nature.

One example of how language creates separation I thought of here is how what we call animals changes once they are to be utilised as food for humans, e.g. a pig becomes pork, bacon, ham, etc. That language seems to me to exist purely to create a barrier between us and the natural world, and exploitation and environmentally damaging practices flow directly from that.

Another example that I think is particularly important in a discussion on the environment is the language of nationalism. Being classified as an 'Australian' not only separates me from other nationalities, but an entire legal framework called a nation-state has been created that formalises that separation and sets my interests in direct conflict with people of other nation-states. This is of course entirely artificial, and I think it has particularly pernicious consequences for the environment. Environmental collapse is a global phenomenon (though it is felt most sharply by people in the developing world), but the primary means for addressing it are national institutions, many of which are authoritarian. International institutions that might enable cooperation are largely hampered by those states that pursue their (perceived) economic interest over the needs of the planet.

Will hopefully be better at keeping up to date with the readings from now on!

Gassho,
Dan
ST/LAH

[Heiso]

It seems like everyone else, I think I understood the point Loy is making here - that preconsciously constructing the world with language creates and enforces a duality which in turn makes us see ourselves as independent from the rest of the world - but it was a bit of a slog getting there, I was getting some flashbacks from university of post-structuralism by the end!

That said, I like some of the comments above, especially Dan's point, that language enables us to mentally differentiate and create a barrier between pig and bacon. And that nation states create barriers between us and the people across a small strip of water.


Gassho,

Heiso

StLah

[Tairin]

Can you think of examples of how language separates us from both the world and each other?

The best example I can think of is the concepts of “us” and “them”. It is literally impossible to use language to describe people without needing to reference the concepts of “us” and “them”. As soon as you do that you’ve immediately created a separation.

This idea about how language creates separation is something I’ve only really become conscious of since I started studying Buddhism more. I think it is fascinating trying to watch my inner process as I categorize everything I encounter. I’ve tried going for a walk down the street and see if I can observe without seeing “tree” or “grass” or “dog”. Of course I do have to pay attention while crossing the “street” because I might be hit by a “car”.

Fascinating chapter. Thank you all for your comment above


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Kokuu]

Thank you all for sharing your perspectives. My take-away from this section is very much along the same lines of language and conceptualisation leading to a fundamental sense of separation. I really like how Loy related this to essential ideas of Buddhism and Zen in how we create self and other and organise the world through our words and ideas.

Although science and the modern world have given us a lot of benefits, including medicine and increase lifespan, splitting up areas of knowledge into different areas has led to connections being lost, a key one to name here being that of economics and ecology. The economic world is almost entirely treated as a separate entity, unrelated to consumption of finite resources and how we deal with waste. The only memory I have of natural resources being mentioned in economics classes is that the price goes up when resources are low because demand exceeds supply.

Our understanding of humans being apart from animals and our cities being apart from nature is also extremely problematic. Buddhism, and ecology, can both serve to remind us of the interconnectivity of all life. There is nothing that is separate, nothing that is unaffected by how we treat the rest of the ecosystem, even if may feel like that for a time.

When we sit, we sit with the earth, all creatures, all people, our cities, forests, mountains and oceans. Nothing is left out. This kind of wholeness needs to also be present in all of our lives.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Kaisui]

I enjoyed this first half of the chapter very much and, as Naiko said, I could read about it endlessly. It is ideas I've read before, but always helpful to hear in different ways, because they are slippery ideas to understand. That language cannot capture the infinite interconnectedness of reality, and that our divisions in language and concept are useful at times, but only one way of looking at things and important to know they can be deconstructed... Some fundamental Buddhist teachings here that Loy is laying as a groundwork for what will come later to do with ecological action.

An example of ways language separates us - naming us with roles, different roles that separate us from others, giving me something to worry about if I'm fulfilling my role or not, to grasp and cling to maintaining it.

I loved this bit (on page 83, section: Craving vs Conceptualizing).

When we perceive the world primarily as a collection of utensils, which we grasp in order to chase after what we desire, we are also instrumentalizing the present into a means to achieve something in the future. The present becomes devalued into a series of moments that fall away, as we reach for something that is not yet. The sense of self's sense of lack means that the present can never be good enough. Our lack projects are always future-oriented.

I've underlined the line that spoke to me the most. It made me feel the awareness of a sense of lack that I do have a lot of the time, but which is something I also have been experiencing as healing through sitting zazen and through practice.

I also loved the quote from Lame Deer about seeing more in the world... it felt uplifting to me, a sense of this being a good thing to do, it felt a little magical even, attractive. I realised how sometimes I read things like this that inspire me to want to try a different way of life, and sometimes I think this means giving everything up and going out to be free in the world, which maybe is the best way to do it, but also this quote made it so clear how it's also all right here right now, in every little object I 'use' and every thing that I do. It reminded me very much of things Dogen has said, like in the Tenzo Kyokun (Instructions for the Cook), such as when he said not to see kitchen utensils just as ordinary utensils. This quote from Lame Deer has really added some depth to how I understand what Dogen is saying.

Gassho,
Kaisui
sat&lah