[EcoDharma] If the world is our temple ...

[Bion]

If the world is our temple ...

I will just offer the Buddhist take that the world is impermanent, everything changes, no person or who species will survive together, and this whole planet is just one of countless planets ... don't be attached to it.

That said, might as well nurture our world and keep it in good health as long as we can.

In any event, I don't think that individuals can fully be the determinants of environmental policy because most people working for big corporations are not free to oppose corporate policy, and even the president is thinking about how to keep the shareholders happy so he does not get fired. That is what is nasty about corporate culture.

We won't fix the environment until we change peoples' desires, which will not be until (I write in my book) we change peoples' DNA so that they desire in moderation.

Gassho, J
STLah

The Dalai Lama always says it: education. It’s what it takes since you can’t force people to do the right thing all the time while letting them make their own choices, but you can educate them from early on. Also, I believe everyone is free to do the right thing and oppose whoever and whatever they want although not many would gladly accept the inevitable consequences of that opposition.
That being said: compassion should always guide our actions and compassion means caring for everyone and everything and doing everything in our power to bring about beneficial results regardless of what others choose to do.

(Sorry for the extra 2 lines, including this one [emoji1787])

[emoji1374] SatToday

[JimInBC]

I will just offer the Buddhist take that the world is impermanent, everything changes, no person or who species will survive together, and this whole planet is just one of countless planets ... don't be attached to it.

With much Metta, Jundo. If that were the main Buddhist take on this, I would say Buddhism has nothing helpful to offer. My son needs a place to live. Having a philosophy that lessens my personal suffering as the world burns and species die and my son is left with no home and no life... I'll take attachment to the planet and any suffering that attachment brings over non-attachnent every time.

Another Buddhist take is that if we let our greed destroy the planet we will all be reborn in the Realm of Hungry Ghosts. And with (potentially) no longer a Human Realm to be born into, we'll be trapped there for eternity. (Or at least a Kalpa.) Obviously this take is based on a belief in rebirth. But this moral narrative, the khamma of destroying a world, seems - to me - a more helpful Buddhist take than non-attachnent in this case.

Gassho, Jim
ST/LaH



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[Jundo]

In my book "ZEN of the FUTURE!" (to be published someday ... in the FUTURE! ) ... I argue that the human race is so set in its ways, so out of control, that all the preaching and persuading, reasoning and meditating is only going to make a dent, that the problem is HOPELESS until we change human nature.

To do that, our best course is to tweak slightly human DNA (assuming we can identify DNA that would have such an effect), not to make any radical change, but simply to:

1 - make us somewhat less violent and prone to anger (not so that someone never becomes upset, but simply so that the small number in the population who cannot control their anger, and act in violent anger, are not likely to do so) ... more empathetic and cooperative so that wars are lessened ... more generous so that resources are more easily shared ...

2 - somewhat more easily satisfied in our desires, whether for food or sex or money or material goods when reaching a satiation point ...

3 - 30% more other directed, empathetic and generous, so that we are more likely to act toward strangers and the wider community as we do toward close friends and close family.

No radical changes are need, and only a small "up" on the volume control for the good aspects of humanity, and a slight "down" for greed and anger.

We do not yet have the ability to identify and change DNA to bring such effects, but we are very close.

The way to work this change is two-fold:

1 - One possibility is a DNA altering virus, not unlike Covid-19, that would spread through the population making the change far and wide. However, for ethical reasons, I do not advocate such a involuntary change.

2 - The path I would support would be use of drugs that make people feel so good, even blissful for taking the drug, while actually leaving them in better physical health and with a better sense of well-being, such that they voluntarily take the drug of their own choice because it feels so good. Imagine something like meth which actually left people with better teeth and complexions, feeling good about themselves, in better physical and mental states, while reducing the greed and anger within them too. In such case, nothing would be forced, and people would choose to take the drug much as they choose to drink beer or get a tattoo or smoke pot now ... because they want to and it makes them feel good. Pure choice in the free marketplace.

Without such a radical change to people, I am afraid that we will continue as we are or worse.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Geika]

May the right bell be struck
At the right time
To be heard by the right people

Gassho
Sat, lah

[JimInBC]

In my book "ZEN of the FUTURE!" (to be published someday ... in the FUTURE! ) ... I argue that the human race is so set in its ways, so out of control, that all the preaching and persuading, reasoning and meditating is only going to make a dent, that the problem is HOPELESS until we change human nature.

To do that, our best course is to tweak slightly human DNA (assuming we can identify DNA that would have such an effect), not to make any radical change, but simply to:

1 - make us somewhat less violent and prone to anger (not so that someone never becomes upset, but simply so that the small number in the population who cannot control their anger, and act in violent anger, are not likely to do so) ... more empathetic and cooperative so that wars are lessened ... more generous so that resources are more easily shared ...

2 - somewhat more easily satisfied in our desires, whether for food or sex or money or material goods when reaching a satiation point ...

3 - 30% more other directed, empathetic and generous, so that we are more likely to act toward strangers and the wider community as we do toward close friends and close family.

No radical changes are need, and only a small "up" on the volume control for the good aspects of humanity, and a slight "down" for greed and anger.

We do not yet have the ability to identify and change DNA to bring such effects, but we are very close.

The way to work this change is two-fold:

1 - One possibility is a DNA altering virus, not unlike Covid-19, that would spread through the population making the change far and wide. However, for ethical reasons, I do not advocate such a involuntary change.

2 - The path I would support would be use of drugs that make people feel so good, even blissful for taking the drug, while actually leaving them in better physical health and with a better sense of well-being, such that they voluntarily take the drug of their own choice because it feels so good. Imagine something like meth which actually left people with better teeth and complexions, feeling good about themselves, in better physical and mental states, while reducing the greed and anger within them too. In such case, nothing would be forced, and people would choose to take the drug much as they choose to drink beer or get a tattoo or smoke pot now ... because they want to and it makes them feel good. Pure choice in the free marketplace.

Without such a radical change to people, I am afraid that we will continue as we are or worse.

Sorry to run long.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Have you read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World? Similar premise. And C.S. Lewis's The Abolition of Man is also an interesting philosophical take on that premise. And, I have some notes towards a novel with an overlapping premise. So it's an idea I've given a lot of thought.

I admit I have a certain wariness of depending on future scientific breakthroughs to solve current issues. And in terms of implementation, the people with the wealth to first access gene therapy like this are likely going to want their children to be better looking and to excel. And governments will certainly have an incentive to have soldiers that are not less aggressive--meaning potentially a roll out to civilians, but not soldiers and police. It seems like if we could find the political will to roll out a global positive change to human nature we could get together and address climate change.

And if all meditation and reasoning can only make a dent, I guess there's little point in meditating or advocacy. Or, I suppose, it could be an argument for the Arahant objective of meditation, but it seems to undermine the Bodhisattva ideal. It's scientists the world needs; Bodhisattvas can do no more than make a dent.

Of course, you might be right. But a very bleak and uninspiring view. I hope you are wrong.

Sorry for going over.

Gassho, Jim
ST/LaH

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[Jundo]

Have you read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World? Similar premise. And C.S. Lewis's The Abolition of Man is also an interesting philosophical take on that premise. And, I have some notes towards a novel with an overlapping premise. So it's an idea I've given a lot of thought.

I admit I have a certain wariness of depending on future scientific breakthroughs to solve current issues. And in terms of implementation, the people with the wealth to first access gene therapy like this are likely going to want their children to be better looking and to excel. And governments will certainly have an incentive to have soldiers that are not less aggressive--meaning potentially a roll out to civilians, but not soldiers and police. It seems like if we could find the political will to roll out a global positive change to human nature we could get together and address climate change.

And if all meditation and reasoning can only make a dent, I guess there's little point in meditating or advocacy. Or, I suppose, it could be an argument for the Arahant objective of meditation, but it seems to undermine the Bodhisattva ideal. It's scientists the world needs; Bodhisattvas can do no more than make a dent.

Of course, you might be right. But a very bleak and uninspiring view. I hope you are wrong.

Sorry for going over.

Gassho, Jim
ST/LaH

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We evolved to survive, over billions of years by nature's chaotic trial and error, random mutation and the strong eats weak laws of the jungle. Now, as the human race is on the brink of its own destruction, we might take the dice away from nature and actually plan some small tweaks and minor improvements to allow us to survive.

You are right that this technology is coming anyway, and soon! Yes, the pentagon might use it, or the wealthy to make designer children. The theme of my book is that Buddhist and other humanitarian scientists way wish to use the inevitable technology for the greater, common good too.

It is not that Zazen or Buddhist teachings (or other moral religions and practices) do not have great impact on individuals. It is that they have not, and will not, make the wide ranging changes through the entire species that are required. Sorry, but the world is not suddenly going to change into Buddhist monks despite all our work here at Treeleaf (although we may have a good effect on Jim, Doshin and some others).

My call is one of desperation: The bus is heading for a cliff, we may need to take radical action. The only way to save the human race is to save the human race from its own worst instincts and drives. Only a few small tweaks are necessary, and the result will be ... not "Brave New World" ... but a genuinely nicer world to live in:

1 - Slightly less violent, with less propensity to become extremely angry to the point of violence.

2 - Slightly greater empathy, and somewhat increased pleasure in knowing that others have food, shelter, education and healthcare much as I would worry about the well-being of my own child. It does not have to be more than a slight increase in empathy.

3 - Slightly earlier and easier points of satiation, like the fellow who can push back from the dinner table when full, or the person who is somewhat less interested in material possessions.

People will not be radically changed ... not turned into saints ... but our roughest edges will be smoothed, our worst and most self-destructive tendencies turned to healthier directions.

It will be a good world.

Gassho, J

STLah

[JimInBC]

We evolved to survive, over billions of years by nature's chaotic trial and error, random mutation and the strong eats weak laws of the jungle. Now, as the human race is on the brink of its own destruction, we might take the dice away from nature and actually plan some small tweaks and minor improvements to allow us to survive.

You are right that this technology is coming anyway, and soon! Yes, the pentagon might use it, or the wealthy to make designer children. The theme of my book is that Buddhist and other humanitarian scientists way wish to use the inevitable technology for the greater, common good too.

It is not that Zazen or Buddhist teachings (or other moral religions and practices) do not have great impact on individuals. It is that they have not, and will not, make the wide ranging changes through the entire species that are required. Sorry, but the world is not suddenly going to change into Buddhist monks despite all our work here at Treeleaf (although we may have a good effect on Jim, Doshin and some others).

My call is one of desperation: The bus is heading for a cliff, we may need to take radical action. The only way to save the human race is to save the human race from its own worst instincts and drives. Only a few small tweaks are necessary, and the result will be ... not "Brave New World" ... but a genuinely nicer world to live in:

1 - Slightly less violent, with less propensity to become extremely angry to the point of violence.

2 - Slightly greater empathy, and somewhat increased pleasure in knowing that others have food, shelter, education and healthcare much as I would worry about the well-being of my own child. It does not have to be more than a slight increase in empathy.

3 - Slightly earlier and easier points of satiation, like the fellow who can push back from the dinner table when full, or the person who is somewhat less interested in material possessions.

People will not be radically changed ... not turned into saints ... but our roughest edges will be smoothed, our worst and most self-destructive tendencies turned to healthier directions.

It will be a good world.

Gassho, J

STLah

Thank you for your thoughtful response, Jundo.

Gassho, Jim
ST/LaH

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[Risho]

I really feel like everyone here is missing the point; if we had a book called "Zen of the Future" I think it would solve all the problems.

If only we would get a date for when the book "Zen of the Future" is slated for release, we could notify the UN of that date for when the book "Zen of the Future" would be released, and it would allay their fears.

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

[Jundo]

I really feel like everyone here is missing the point; if we had a book called "Zen of the Future" I think it would solve all the problems.

If only we would get a date for when the book "Zen of the Future" is slated for release, we could notify the UN of that date for when the book "Zen of the Future" would be released, and it would allay their fears.

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

Alas, no. When I have expressed a few places my belief that the future of Buddhist ethics might be found in gene alteration and that, since the technology is coming anyway whether we like it or not, we should get ahead of the Pentagon and Wall Street who will be doing it anyway ...

... my suggestion either meets fear and revulsion as some form of Hitlerian eugenics (my proposal is mild and the opposite of trying to build a master race) or mocking as just Sci-Fi fantasy. It is neither.

In fact, the technology is already on our doorstep, will be used for good and bad whether we like it or not. I am just a desperate voice, think it really the only solution to wars and child abuse and polluting the planet ... and I can think of no better alternative. Better Bodhisattvas through Biology, Goodness in our Genes!

Gassho, J

STLah

[Meian]

May the right bell be struck
At the right time
To be heard by the right people

Gassho
Sat, lah

Gassho2, meian st lh

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[Koutoku]

How much can one person do? More than you and I can imagine.


Gassho,

Koutoku
SAT