[Zen Teachings in Challenging Times] - Introduction

[Koushi]

I am not so sure and people said the same about televisions. I have seen smartphones be both a distraction and connection.

My daughter (17) was brought up in the age of smartphones and she uses hers for a bit and then sits down and reads a book. As with tv, dvds and computer gaming, there are clearly dangers in overuse but I think that young people are smart and many are learning how they can make technology work for them rather than the other way around.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

Related, but saw this today as well. As a kid who was raised on video games and bad television, this is reassuring (and an affirmation that my cognitive problems are my own doing, not the video games )

https://uh.edu/news-events/stories/2...g-research.php - Study Finds Video Game Playing Causes No Harm to Young Children’s Cognitive Abilities. Research Also Saw No Measurable Benefits From Video Games That Claim to Help Kids’ Development

Gassho,
Koushi
STLaH

[Heikyo]

In reading this essay, do you think that Master Dogen can be an example for us, 800 years later?

I agree that Dogen’s world was very different from our own, but every time in history has had its challenges of one sort or another. Today we face different forms of suffering that would have been inconceivable in Dogen’s time. The world is stressful and there are huge inequalities despite the advances of technology, science and medicine. As Zen practitioners I think we need to be able to have the courage to operate within this world of suffering. This is one of the features of Zen Buddhism that make it special – there is less emphasis on escaping the world and more being in the midst of everything. So I think Dogen can still be an example for us in these times – the suffering that he experienced may be different to what we experience now, but how he responded to these challenges can teach us how to deal with our own challenges in the modern world.

Do we need some suffering in our life to truly have a life worth living?

I think that suffering is always going to be present in one form or another – its not so much as needing it, but that it is just there. It is part of being alive. Suffering challenges us, can teach us a lot and can help develop our practice in compassion.

Gassho
Heikyo
Sat today, LAH

[Tokan]

follow in Dogen's footsteps as he models composure and resolve, demonstrating the vow of lived Dharma in the face of challenge

Hi all

Glad to be joining this practice group, thanks to the pdf's at the moment. It has been interesting to read the perspectives so far, always much to let sink into the marrow!

I pulled out just that one phrase as, for me, this is the calm at the centre of the storm. This is the place with no wind where we can witness the hurricane raging around us. This, for me, rather than trying to mimic the incredible intellectual achievements of Master Dogen (as if I could!), is the posture I direct my practice towards, as this posture is, to me, universally relevant in all times and places. Dogen's life story, similarly, may seem alien in many specific respects for a Westerner like myself but, again, there are some quite universal factors such as the loss of his parents - who would not then question the nature of reality itself! Dogen was a man, not a God, we revere but do not deify him or his example, and that opens up the possibility of an ongoing human connection to his story and allows us to continually relate his teachings to our experience.

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[DGF]

I do think dogen story is still relevant, all through we are still human being. And our reactions and action can be the same.
We need the past to learn from. Changes will allways be there. We need to learn to work with it.

So suffering is needed in life. As there is allways suffering. It reminds us that we have to learn to be patience, to accepting and have compassion and the see all things working together as a fully thing.

Diana
Gassho
Sat-lah

[Risho]

I think Dogen is relevant, and we need suffering to grow and learn. If I remember, one of the 6 realms in Buddhism is the heavenly realm, and I think we all experience all of the realms in our life. But you'd think that the heavenly realm is something to which you would want to aspire. Think about it; you have everything you want, or think you want. But, to me, it's actually a hell realm - it's stagnant and superficial. Suffering brings us to practice; it's the first Noble truth for a reason, and that suffering hopefully reveals to us what or who or whatever you want to call it we are... far beyond the superficial things we think we want.

I really like how Rev. Dai-En Bennage calls Shakespeare, "Shakespeare Roshi". Truth is not under the purview of a single way or practice or religion; truth is truth. Zen teachers are everywhere if we are ready to see and hear them, and there is no better teacher in my experience than suffering. It really shows you where your practice and life is at now. It's really the good stuff.

Fortunately or unfortunately i seem to be presented with the same teachings/suffering over and over because it takes me a long time to learn my lessons. hahahaha

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

[Tairin]

Reading along thanks to the PDF. My purchased copy of the book is stuck in transit due to some cyber-incident

If this introduction is any indication of the quality of the rest of the book then this will be a great read.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Guest]

This reading was meaningful to me in many ways. Most of which is that it is written by my root teacher, Dai-En Bennage. When she speaks of suffering from not having certain things, it is from a very real place for her. She would tell stories of how she missed dancing as she had done in her younger years. She also shared the many teachings she learned from her dance teachers and handled those teachings with the same level of sacredness as she did the teachings from her Zen teachers. She never was pretentious with her feelings of loss that she felt because of giving up something so dear to her. But, at the same time she was very clear that because of the suffering that she had in her life which eventually brought her to Buddhist practice, she would have had it no other way. For her the Dharma saved her life and instilled in her a deep commitment to serving others.

When I visited her during the summer of last year, it was clear that her short-term memory has suffered a great deal. Yet, when I showed her pictures of my precepts ceremony from almost 25 years ago, she remembered the people there. She even saw the keisu in the picture and said that she loved that bell and it had a wonderful sound to it. I could tell in that moment that she missed it. She then quickly said, well it would not do any good for me now. I have no room for it and no use for it. I am sure it is in a good place and being put to good use. When we sat meditation she brought out a small shokei, but she had no striker for it. I could again see this sense of missing it and realizing that she no longer has even some of the more simple things that she once had. Again, she quickly changed and said, "Daiman, how about we use this pen?" I am sure it will do the job. In all of my time that I spent with her and much of that time was so long ago, I remember how she could feel the pull of not having certain things or the nostalgia of the past but always quickly turning it around to the present moment. She never dwelled in any of that for too long.

Of the Three Great Gifts she talks about, the gift of material goods, the gift of the spiritual, and the gift of no fear, I would have to say that Dai-En, even in her ailing health has put the gift of no fear in front of all else. The story of how she eventually completed her Roshi training is too long to mention here, but suffice it to say, she had to deal with quite a lot in being a Westerner and a woman that often times was treated unfairly, going through that rigorous training. In the end her practice of no fear is what prevailed and still prevails in her illness.

Gassho,

Daiman
St/LAH

[Chikyou]

Like others here, I believe Dogen is still relevant. Circumstances change, people tend to remain the same, more or less.

I am not so sure and people said the same about televisions. I have seen smartphones be both a distraction and connection.

My daughter (17) was brought up in the age of smartphones and she uses hers for a bit and then sits down and reads a book. As with tv, dvds and computer gaming, there are clearly dangers in overuse but I think that young people are smart and many are learning how they can make technology work for them rather than the other way around.

Admittedly, five seems a little young and maybe parents can wait. My kids all got one when entering senior school at 11 and part of that was so that they could call if they missed the bus or something happened.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

I used to spend hours with my nose in a book as a kid. Days even. I would read a book while walking.

Clearly, the device isn't the problem here.

Gassho,
SatLah
Kelly

[Naiko]

This reading was meaningful to me in many ways. Most of which is that it is written by my root teacher, Dai-En Bennage. When she speaks of suffering from not having certain things, it is from a very real place for her. She would tell stories of how she missed dancing as she had done in her younger years. She also shared the many teachings she learned from her dance teachers and handled those teachings with the same level of sacredness as she did the teachings from her Zen teachers. She never was pretentious with her feelings of loss that she felt because of giving up something so dear to her. But, at the same time she was very clear that because of the suffering that she had in her life which eventually brought her to Buddhist practice, she would have had it no other way. For her the Dharma saved her life and instilled in her a deep commitment to serving others.

When I visited her during the summer of last year, it was clear that her short-term memory has suffered a great deal. Yet, when I showed her pictures of my precepts ceremony from almost 25 years ago, she remembered the people there. She even saw the keisu in the picture and said that she loved that bell and it had a wonderful sound to it. I could tell in that moment that she missed it. She then quickly said, well it would not do any good for me now. I have no room for it and no use for it. I am sure it is in a good place and being put to good use. When we sat meditation she brought out a small shokei, but she had no striker for it. I could again see this sense of missing it and realizing that she no longer has even some of the more simple things that she once had. Again, she quickly changed and said, "Daiman, how about we use this pen?" I am sure it will do the job. In all of my time that I spent with her and much of that time was so long ago, I remember how she could feel the pull of not having certain things or the nostalgia of the past but always quickly turning it around to the present moment. She never dwelled in any of that for too long.

Of the Three Great Gifts she talks about, the gift of material goods, the gift of the spiritual, and the gift of no fear, I would have to say that Dai-En, even in her ailing health has put the gift of no fear in front of all else. The story of how she eventually completed her Roshi training is too long to mention here, but suffice it to say, she had to deal with quite a lot in being a Westerner and a woman that often times was treated unfairly, going through that rigorous training. In the end her practice of no fear is what prevailed and still prevails in her illness.

Gassho,

Daiman
St/LAH

Thank you for sharing this, Daiman.
Gassho,
Naiko
st

[DanM]

In reading this essay, do you think that Master Dogen can be an example for us, 800 years later? His world was very different from our own, and in many ways even harder than our modern lives with relative comforts, medicine and technologies. On the other hand, we face challenges and problems that Dogen could never have imagined. In such light, does Dogen's story truly remain relevant? What do you think?

I particularly appreciated one paragraph of the essay, the one that begins "There can be suffering from not having certain things." It almost makes it sound as if we need down to have up. Do we need some suffering in our life to truly have a life worth living?

We are closer to Dogen's time than Dogen was to the Buddha's time, and if we consider dukkha to be a 'truth' of what it means to be human, then both can be an example for us no matter how much things may have changed in 800 or 2500 years. The finer details of what causes suffering may be different, but our emotional response to challenges we face will be comparable.

I think it is necessary to have some suffering to appreciate when things are going well, otherwise you just take it for granted. I also think it's possible to experience both at once, for example I lost a friend recently and although it hurt a lot, I felt enormous gratitude that they'd been part of my life.

Gassho,
Dan
ST/LAH

[Tokan]

We are closer to Dogen's time than Dogen was to the Buddha's time, and if we consider dukkha to be a 'truth' of what it means to be human, then both can be an example for us no matter how much things may have changed in 800 or 2500 years.

Gassho,
Dan
ST/LAH

Hey Dan, sorry for your loss.

Just a response to your comment, which provoked some thought at my end. I like the Zen concept of being-time, which Dogen wrote about. I don't see them as intertwined, they are indivisible from the inception of life, so back to that 'not one, not two.' I think we sometimes forget (me included) that time is also a cultural concept, since time, moment, aon, era, age are all expressions of our understanding of time in relation to our experience of life across the generations. While we might call this the present age compared to our past 'ages', to a tribe that communicates their history orally, is the passage of time quite the same thing? From Gotama to Dogen might be 1200 years, and from Dogen to us 800, are those years comparable culturally and historically, or are they just the linear distance between two points?

Just some internal reflections I felt like sharing. Of course, there is always the no-time beyond all of this, but I'll stay out of that one for now

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[DanM]

That's a fair point Tokan. Although I was writing from a relative point of view on time, it's helpful to consider the same question from the perspective you've mentioned here, which does point to the "no-time beyond all of this" you discussed too.

Gassho ,
Dan
ST/LAH

[Rousei]

When imaging the difficulties someone 800 years ago faced, in an attempt to compare with our own, perhaps many draw a blank. I draw many blanks since I am not particularly knowledgeable about what daily life was like back then. However, I always remember that while the details may differ, the people then suffer just like people now suffer.

The details may be different, but the resulting conditions are the same. A wave of emotional states, flowing from one to the next. what causes these waves without question changes, but we must remember they are there. I draw a blank when I try to think about the suffering someone 800 years experiences in the same way I draw a blank at what sufferings billionaires face, or my next-door neighbor.

The world of today is vastly different from the world Dogen lived in, which is vastly different to the world Boddhidharma lived in, which is vastly different to the world the Buddha lived in so on and so forth. What remains the same though is that we all suffer. This thought helps me let go of the unimportant parts, the details so to speak, and helps me feel closer to and in the shoes of these great ancestors. Like them, we face the same questions, we suffer the same conditions... just, the details are a little different.

I hope everyone is coping with their conditions and has the support of others.

Gassho
Rousei
ST

[Alina]

Hello everyone,

I'm glad to be joining this reading group, a bit late but as soon as I found it.

In reading this essay, do you think that Master Dogen can be an example for us, 800 years later? His world was very different from our own, and in many ways even harder than our modern lives with relative comforts, medicine and technologies. On the other hand, we face challenges and problems that Dogen could never have imagined. In such light, does Dogen's story truly remain relevant? What do you think?

I agree with others in the thread, his world was very different, but dukkha is still the same. Personally, learning that he lost his parents at such an early age, and still found the strength in him to leave everything he knew behind to follow his hotsubodaishin, facing so many challenges... it's simply inspiring, helps me realize my challenges are not that great. Also, nowadays we have so many things that we may take for granted (like drinking water, food and a refrigerator to keep it from decaying, internet access and laptops/phones and Zoom and everything else that makes this thread possible), and he went to China alone, didn't even know the language, he must have being cold, hungry, even lonely? and yet he persisted... there's no excuse for us not to practice!

A phrase that stays with me is "Loss is gain, gain is loss." My losses have being (and still are) great teachers, this reminds me I should complain less.

Thank you for allowing me to join so late.

Gassho
Alina
ST