7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

[Shokai]

Re: 7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

Alan; Well put; there are so many things that happen in a day that require no response

[Ekai]

Re: 7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

Good job Kelly!

Answer #1
Being influenced by outside sources can be a positive thing. For example if a close friend or family member sees you act in a way that is not in your best interest and gives you helpful advice to get back on track, that's a good influence. Sometimes we need someone to point us in the right direction that pulls us out of our delusions. We can learn to make our own decisions by trusting our heart and having full presence of mind.

Then there are the times when someone's negative attitude can influence your state of mind or mood. When my husband is angry at me or about something else, I can really feel it in his energy. It pulls me in, and I allow it to effect my mood. When I let his emotions get to me, it colors my perceptions of things and even brings me down a little. I guess this is something I need to work by changing my relationship to what is happening instead of allowing it to effect me so strongly.

Answer #2
Well this is a good question since I recently had one of the those weeks. I felt like everything I was doing was wrong and kept making mistakes everywhere here and there. It was really getting to me and the self-judging started to kick-in. I am not good enough, not creative enough, not smart enough, blah-blah-blah. Finally after a few days of trying to let it go over and over again, the clinging in my mind started to thin out. The more I released the mind grip, the more present I was with my experience (at least some of the time :? ). It wasn't like everything is great and honkey dory. I still felt pretty yucky but felt yucky without indulging in it. Even though it took me the entire work week to realize that, at least I was able to enjoy my weekend with my family.

Thanks,
Jodi

[Tb]

Re: 7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

Hi.

"That which we call paradise or happiness or the Dharma or enlightenment cannot be sought outside us. It will be found only when we notice that we are innately endowed with it."

"If you try for it, you will become separated from it."

This topic isn't a new one for us is it? To me this story is a gentle reminder of why I need to plant my butt on my cushion each day.

I am the youngest of four children in my family. I have a strong bond with my sister, who is closest in age to me (we are five years apart). Growing up, my sister was often bossy and always felt the need to tell me what to do and when to do it – as bigger siblings tend to do. I began to rely on her judgement, or rather her perceptions of my situation and the best way to handle it instead of trusting in myself to make a decision. And I’ve found that throughout my life, I have sometimes felt the need to call on her or another close friend to, in essence, validate my own feelings on what I should think or do. I sometimes felt/feel my happiness depends on another person's perspective of me, my decisions, or I look to them to help me figure out what I already know in my heart to be true. I've found through this practice, that it would just be simpler to tune into myself in the first place; put trust in myself and follow what my instincts tell me to do!

Recently, I have placed myself in a situation in which I put so much stock in what other’s opinions or perceptions "may" be of me that I forgot to just trust myself, just be myself and let others perceive me as they will. Do I really need other’s approval to be happy in my life? A kind friend reminded me that it is important to look inside and just be who I am first and I thank him.

There was an time in my life where i relied heavily on what others thought of me and what i should do.
Some go this way, some go that way, some take an shortcut...
Now is another matter, not so much that i don't listen to what they say.
I take it in and use that which is useful and leave the rest.
I also notice people noticing it and contemplating things they do, my doing is making ripples in the fabric.

QUESTION: Describe a time in your life when you have allowed outside influences to affect your way of thinking or doing?

When i was in the army, i let myself be led.
I have always been kind of an leader type, although i strive not be one i kinda end up there anyway, but in the army i got the chance of being led.
Not so much that i became an zombie, i was in a position where i did alot of things on my own, but let others decide what i should do and then execute them.
It was a very good experience, which, i believe, have given me alot of good, in dealing with people.
The same goes when i work in the bookshop.
The customer comes in, with an set thing they want, and i work it out for them.
Now, this doesn't mean there arent times when you can be hurt, or it can be hurtful, but you have to see that, and work for it to become the best it can.

Pg 15

"If it Sloshes, there isn't enough. People are like gourds. Human beings who are truly self-aware remain calm and unruffled no matter what happens. When people rush around busily, complaining and making excuses, they prove their lack of wisdom.”

If it sloshes...
Yes, if you don't go fully out in any direction (full or empty bottle) you kinda get astray, and you loose a bit of it all.
And people often complain, it is always someones fault it seems, theirs, yours, the weathers...

QUESTION: Have you had a time in your life when you felt like you were just "sloshing" around and couldn't find a sense of calm? Were you able to regain some stillness, and how?

I guess we feel like that all the time, although things are just as they should be, its all good practice as some old fool around here says...
And i think that there isn't less of sloshing but more of seeing it for the good practice it is in my case...
As in that you begin to see it in a different light, than before, where you could feel it sloshing alot...
So it is not so much as to regaining stillness as to "see" the stillnes that is there, to not get stuck on the storm in the waterglass...
Well, for me anyway...

Good ones Kelly, thank you for them!
Mtfbwy
Fugen

[Graceleejenkins]

Re: 7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

The example of the sloshing water in the gourd is quite interesting. I interpreted it as if you are full of the present moment, there is no constant banging back and forth against constraints. But the example also reminds me of how I have often noticed the sloshing of water in the water bottle I hold in my hand when I’m walking and my arms swing. With the first steps, the water does not slosh, then sloshes in rhythm with the arm swing, and then slightly against the rhythm. Funny, how I always pay attention to the slosing in my water bottle, and then there is this example. Gassho, Grace.

[Shujin]

Re: 7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

I had some thoughts collected for this week's thread. Unfortunately, I've been taking medicine which leaves me completely scatterbrained. ops: Rather than leave you with an incoherent train wreck, I'll see y'all on the next thread.

gassho,
Shujin

[Kaishin]

Re: 7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

QUESTION: Describe a time in your life when you have allowed outside influences to affect your way of thinking or doing?

At many times, if I were the nun my response would have been "hmm...she's right, it IS cold." So often in my past I have discounted my own feelings/intuitions in deference to someone I thought was wiser/smarter/"better." Something I've really worked on in recent years. This story really hit home for me in that respect.


QUESTION: Have you had a time in your life when you felt like you were just "sloshing" around and couldn't find a sense of calm? Were you able to regain some stillness, and how?

Ha, every day! It's a stormy sea at work (managing a team) and at home (wrangling a baby and a toddler). Zazen is my anchor, though (channelling Jundo here)--no place to drop it, and nothing to anchor!

[Risho]

Re: 7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

For me it's not about outside influences on my thinking, as this is a given in order to survive and function in the world as well as learn about myself. It's more about striking a balance between those outside and inside influences, and this is where still waters run deep applies. The more I practice the deeper my "waters" and thus the less likely I am to slosh around with those outside influences.

Awesome job Kelly and some really good posts! Sorry I'm late to the party, but outside influences have been making me very busy. :mrgreen:

Alan, you read my mind with "Still waters run deep"! I'm usually wavy, but I notice those waves a lot more and sit with them. I feel that anxiety, anger, etc. When I first started feeling that, it was disturbing, but feeling those things really brings a sort of intimacy. Life is dukkha; we can't run from it, we are it.

To echo Matt, work can get very demanding, but it's all perspective I think. Sometimes, you just have to sit back and not take it so seriously. I try to pay attention but treat it like a game. It makes it more interesting and fun. It's like the exploration we allow of ourselves through this practice. We can try to force life into the vacuum we want to avoid pain, suffering, etc, but that doesn't alleviate anything; it makes life on our terms. But if we meet life as it is and add nothing, subtract nothing, just truly meet and be with the moment, then that's it. The first reading reminded me of the faith in mind sutra. In our minds, we hate and love, create all the dualities. But if we just be with what is, there is no separation anymore.

Gassho,

Risho

[Dosho]

Re: 7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

QUESTION: Describe a time in your life when you have allowed outside influences to affect your way of thinking or doing?

Until I found Zen, I thought my way of thinking rather unusual and I suppose it still is, but perhaps I don't think of myself as much of an outsider to humanity as I once did. I grew up in a very cold climate, often waking up in winter to find my hometown listed as the coldest spot in the lower 48 states in the US. Many people would comment all winter on how brutal the cold was...that the snow was too much for them...and I could hear the same voice in my head from 6 months prior talking about how hot it was. In either case, it was a mentality to think about what we don't have rather than what is right in front of us. And of course we need those cold snowy days to refresh our lakes and rivers so we can stay cool in the summer. All is a cycle. But at times I found myself thinking in the same way, just to fit in...because to reply to someone saying, "Damn, it's cold!" by saying, "Well, that does help with the summer heat" will often elicit a reponse of, "Whaaaa?" and many expect a more common, "Yes, it's freezing! It's awful out there!" Well, one time I did that, choosing to complain about the rain to "fit in" to everyone else's thinking. So, I said something like, "Geez, I can't take all this gloomy rain!" The person in front of me said, "Well, that rain does help our crops and keep us cool." Well, duh! I learned my lesson that day to be who I am...but I am still learning.

QUESTION: Have you had a time in your life when you felt like you were just "sloshing" around and couldn't find a sense of calm? Were you able to regain some stillness, and how?

As I believe John said, I began to regain that equilibrium when I came to Treeleaf. Now, sloshing or no sloshing, I am capable of being quite calm, no matter if the water is shallow or deep. Just keep swiming...without so much TRYING to be be calm.

Thank you Kelly.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Saijun]

Re: 7/22 Zen Seeds: Pg 14 and 15

Hello friends,

QUESTION: Describe a time in your life when you have allowed outside influences to affect your way of thinking or doing?

Every day life is affected by perceived personal and societal constructs. "I should do this. I have to do that." And yet, even acknowledging that allows great freedom; I know that I could quit my job, go back to school, do this, do that. It's all in my power; right now, today.

BUT

I don't. Now isn't the time. The path that I choose day after day after day is one of supporting others as best I can. Choosing to let go of what "I" want, what "I" need (and "I" need a lot; money, a vacation, a better sewing table, books, etc) to do what I can to assist others is my freedom. But outside influences determine what form that freedom takes; if I have money in the bank, that may direct me to one action. If I'm broke (more likely :? ), that will indicate another action is necessary. Likewise, if I have insight from a previous experience, or not.

So, outside influences affect my thinking and doing. But dancing with those influences, playing with those influences, is freedom.

QUESTION: Have you had a time in your life when you felt like you were just "sloshing" around and couldn't find a sense of calm? Were you able to regain some stillness, and how?

Oh, every day. I have a love-hate relationship with my job (as in, I love having the bills paid, but hate going to work), and usually by the end of the day, I'm beat (mentally. It's not very physically demanding to sit at a desk in a basement all day ). But I've taken to sitting at lunch, because lord knows I need all the practice I can get, and an evening meditation walk (not kinhin, mind you) where I just let go of everything and walk. And right now, when it's 117 degrees when I get off, it's very cathartic physically, too. It's a time to be aware of my body, my breath, the wind, the heat, the whole of everything in each step.

Metta and Gassho,

Saijun