7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Thank you all for these great contributaions. What can be said after these?

Against the stream?
A long period of unemployment and failure that ended with an acceptance and then a sun-lit clearing in my life.

With the stream?
Bobbing up and down since then.

The face in the mirror?
I have a friend who has been a travel writer for 20 years. She has been EVERYWHERE. Interestingly, she has always made a point of never travelling with a camera. Of her many long journeys and adventures, after 20 years she doesn't own a single picture.

Gassho,
Soen

[ChrisA]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

I don't know what the tradition is here on Treeleaf concerning book club postings, but several people mentioned being affected by others' posts. I'd like to suggest that those who desire to do so indicate what it was that others contributed that touched them.

I've been thinking about these two paragraphs of BrianW's since I read them:

Each of the aforementioned issues are gators. They make me very anxious…as of late it seems like I am constantly anxious. I’m paddling down this stream and starting to get shell shocked….when will another gator pop up? At times hypervigilance sets in.

We may think of gators interrupting our “flow”…as we bump into them we get the feeling of discontinuity, but they are as much a part of the flow as the river itself. Although my participation at Treeleaf has been somewhat limited in recent months, I have kept up a regular practice of zazen. As stated in by Rev. Aoyama, zazen helps us to hear the river….to feel the flow….to perceive the continuity.

When I read that, I thought, jeepers, if you can occasionally recognize that those gators are of the flow of the river itself -- and those are scarier gators than the ones I deal with! -- well, gassho to you, BrianW.

[BrianW]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Chris,

Thanks for your comments!

I don't know what the tradition is here on Treeleaf concerning book club postings, but several people mentioned being affected by others' posts. I'd like to suggest that those who desire to do so indicate what it was that others contributed that touched them.

I believe that comments on other peoples posts is one way to build the feeling of community and as it was my post even better(LOL)! But seriously, I am teaching, and developing at the same time, and online course. I teach at a university. I encourage my students to read, consider, and read other peoples posts. I believe this helps students process the information in a different manner....perhaps it is the social aspect. I usually post in the book club and I am often humbled by the insight by others commenting on the reading. At times I integrate those insights into my posts....anyway just my thoughts.

Yes I usually have far less drama in my life....just seems to be the current flow. BTW love Radiohead!

Gassho,
BrianW/Jisen

[Hoyu]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Chris wrote:
I don't know what the tradition is here on Treeleaf concerning book club postings, but several people mentioned being affected by others' posts. I'd like to suggest that those who desire to do so indicate what it was that others contributed that touched them.

Hi Chris,
I understand what you are saying here. I too was a little unsure wether to post replies to the many things which touched me or not. I think it's a great idea because there is so much here which speaks to me!

Thank you very much to all who have contributed thus far! I have learned from each and everyone's stories and look forward to what everyone has to share in the conning chapters!

Gassho,
John

[Hans]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Hello,

thank you all for your very wonderful and intimate contributions.

Question 1: One summer morning during my final year at university I ran down the stairs of the place I stayed at, ran towards the door to the outside, riding the waves of each moment like a child speeding down a hill with a sled towards a snow covered, wide open valley. Circumstances were all good, it was easy to feel no wants then. Couple of years later I was caught in a web of my own making, not understanding where I went wrong when I didn't do anything wrong and why I didn't feel half as free as way back then.


Question 2: There is this guy looking at me that seems very familiar in a strange way, yet he changes all the time. He's quite hairy and has wrinkles that seem to be based on an abundance of laughter throughout most of his life. Once in a while there's a flash of melancholy, but whatever the face is like, I just wash it and get on with my day.

Gassho,

Hans

[Graceleejenkins]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Question 1: I feel like I'm swimming upstream fighting against the current, and if I stop, I might drown, or those who are swimming with me might drown. I also feel like this is not what I want to be doing, but I don't know exactly what I want to do, and I don't see any way to really get out of what I am doing now. I'm trying to salvage a struggling business that could take all my husband’s and my retirement savings and my house with the pond that I love. But when I saw a bankruptcy attorney, just to see what my options were, I started to give up in my mind and some things didn't bother as much. I guess if you think you’re going to lose it all away, you don’t care so much what could go wrong, employee gripes, frivolous law suits, thefts, or putting more money into a losing business. You think, “what does it matter? That con man won’t collect anything anyhow and the employees will have to go find the perfect job somewhere else. Let it go. Quit working so hard and paying for the privilege.” Then, just when you are ready to let everything go, you think you should try some more. Maybe you can do something, if only you were to try hard enough. Isn’t that what all the self-improvement books and business gurus say? Make goals, be persistent, give 110%, and you will succeed?”
I can just imagine what you might all say: “Fight without fighting.” However, don’t know how to do that yet. My chest flutters every time the phone rings, because I’m afraid it will be something bad. I think that this might even be a learning experience-- if only I were younger--because I don’t really believe I can start all over at 60. And I may only have 10 summers left and I don’t want to work 55 hours a week and I don’t want to try so hard. Yes, I know that if my husband were sick, I would give every penny to get him well, so this thing of a failing business is really not such a big thing to be so upset over, but ahhh, my chest still flutters, except when I sit.
Question 2: When I look in the mirror, I see an aging face, even though I've never been that concerned with looks . I’ve never even worn makeup. But all the same, that my face is starting to look like the face of a 60 year-old woman is hard on me. My husband loves me anyway.

Gassho, Grace.

[Graceleejenkins]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Impermanence is the temporal expression of emptiness. Thus, if you can experience the change, you can feel the connection…..we are the river…it all becomes one.

Wow, Brian. What a beautiful quote! I'll remember it. Gassho, Grace.

[Jundo]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Chris wrote:
I don't know what the tradition is here on Treeleaf concerning book club postings, but several people mentioned being affected by others' posts. I'd like to suggest that those who desire to do so indicate what it was that others contributed that touched them.

Hi Chris,
I understand what you are saying here. I too was a little unsure wether to post replies to the many things which touched me or not. I think it's a great idea because there is so much here which speaks to me!

Thank you very much to all who have contributed thus far! I have learned from each and everyone's stories and look forward to what everyone has to share in the conning chapters!

Gassho,
John

Yes, do reflect on each others' stories and insights if touched, back and forth. This is a book club, all sitting together in a circle ... sometimes silently sitting, sometimes just talkin'.

Gassho, J

[BrianW]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

rianW wrote:
Impermanence is the temporal expression of emptiness. Thus, if you can experience the change, you can feel the connection…..we are the river…it all becomes one.

Wow, Brian. What a beautiful quote! I'll remember it. Gassho, Grace.

Thanks Grace, but the first part of the quote I can't take credit for as I heard or read this somewhere ....just can't remember where or when.

Gassho,
BrianW/Jisen

[AlanLa]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Life goes well for me when I am in the flow, when I view it and all that happens as process. Inevitably, when things are awry, I discover that I got stuck in an outcome. Once I get back to the process of things, then all gets better. Process vs. outcome - yeah, it's a duality, but one works better than the other. Both are important and have their place, but life-as-process seems much more in accordance with our Buddhist Path.

I own this face! I earned every wrinkle and blemish and gray hair, etc. It might be nice to be pretty, but that would not be me, would it? :twisted: I discovered my first gray hair when I was 21 years old. I was home from college getting ready to go to Christmas services with my parents when I saw it in the mirror. I immediately went out to announce this great discovery. My mom and dad both said something like, "Don't worry about it. You can just cut it off." But I said, "No, this is great. I earned this! " They looked at me like I was crazy for a second and then they realized what I meant. They said, "Yeah, you did." Now I got a whole head of the gray stuff. Great stuff.

How many Zen Buddhists go for plastic surgery to make their self look better? I wonder. Isn't that sort of an oxymoron?

[Taylor]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

A bit late getting my book, but just in time!

Impermanence is a concept I work with daily. So often I look at something and forget that it is changing, I am changing, as the moment comes and goes. It's easy to pay lip-service to impermanence, "Yes yes all will fade", but hard to really get it into my head. Loved ones have passed away, days have turned to 20 years and it's all a bit of a mystery how I got here, but I'm grateful for it. You never step in the same stream twice, you never greet the same morning. What a difference it makes when we feel our lives are just "same-old-same-old".

The days do add up, so do my choices. I've learned that regret for the past has no place in my life, it's a waste of time, energy, and suffering. Learning from the past, growing into each moment, that's what carves out the face of someone at peace with themselves. Comparing myself to others, even my former (no) self, is silly.

Gassho,
Taylor

[Risho]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Question 1: flowing and not flowing

My life is pretty busy right now, so in the present I can say work presents me with a lot of great opportunities for practice. If I get a new project, I can feel a fear of failure (funny that Chet brought that up in his other post, because that's something I confront A LOT). So if I let that control me it will, but if I focus on the changes, on the work, and truly become one with it, there is a flow. There is no fear or impatience; there is a new energy of vitality. I really enjoy that. It's not always easy to get to that place, but that's all my mind theatre (as Jundo sensei would say). That's the practice. I used to think the practice was just on the mat, but it's everywhere.

This first essay really speaks to me. Why can we hear or see when we are in practice but when we are not we fail to hear anything but what's in our own minds? We're used to listening to the junk that floats round and round. I caught myself the other day, and thought "Really? This thought again?"

Another area where I really feel not flowing is when I get a feeling of boredom. It's probably why I used to smoke. I have an addictive personality. It's like this child within me, what next? what next? So I just try to feel that boredom, and sit with it wherever I'm at. The same with fear, or anger. I don't try to reject those feelings. Easier said than done, but it's interesting. Why am I bored? What would I rather be doing? Why isn't thsi moment enough? Why is this never enough?

But the practice allows me to come back and flow instead of constantly grasping.


Question 2:

"I look in the mirror and what do I see. A lone wolf there staring back at me" - Travis Tritt

I don't know who I see. I look so different now. I think I see a more honest and down to earth person. I used to care so much about my looks in college. Now that I'm 35, I'm balding, and I think God took the hair on my head and put it on my chest. hahaha

But all superficiality aside, it is just amazing how much I've changed. Not just externally but internally as well. The path has taught me that we never really stop the search for who we are. At least that's where I'm at now. Things change, and we aren't static. That discovery is fun.

[Dokan]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

1) Being a laid back person I tend to not get very upset about things disrupting my 'flow'. If they do, I tend to repress them until I can let them go. Maybe it's too passive, but that's ok. That being said, much of my life I see as flowing down the river. Since reading Zen Mind back in the 'beginning' of my practice I feel that Suzuki Roshi's discussion on how we being droplets in a river, temporarily separated speak my mind. The pain and joy we feel are only when we separate ourselves from our lives and the 10k things around us.

2) In my mirror I see someone who is content. However, I also see someone who is striving to maintain that contentment. Lastly, I see someone who is trying to not strive. All the while just being content with the striving and non-striving.

Gassho,

Shawn

[Rimon]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Thank you all for your sharing, It appears we all have good reason to keep sitting.
The response to this thread is wonderful and Thanks to Rimon, I learned a new word

I hope it wasn't a four letter word ;-D

Gassho

Rimon

[Saijun]

Re: 7/15 ZEN SEEDS: P. 11, P. 13 (INTRO)

Hello friends,

I'm a little late to the party. ops:

QUESTION: MAYBE DESCRIBE A TIME IN YOUR LIFE YOU FLOWED WITH LIFE'S EVENTS LIKE A RIVER. MAYBE A TIME YOU FELT LIKE YOU WERE SWIMMING AGAINST THE CURRENT.

Most of the time I try to flow "with life's events like a river" However, the only time that it really happens is when I see that by trying to force it, I'm "swimming against the current." And not in a good way; this whole path of practice could be said to be "swimming against the current" of society by offering an alternative to the systemic delusion, greed, and fear encountered every day.

No, every time I take that "backwards step" and look at myself, I see that there's a constant, unconscious struggle to fit myself into some ideal; either mine or someone else's. "Am I sitting right?" "Am I working hard enough?" etc. But when I notice this, the whole system comes down. And builds right back up. Again and again, seeing delusion in my thoughts and actions, a thousand times and a thousand times more.

So, when I try to "flow with life's events" I've learned to see how I'm "swimming against the stream." But when I see how I'm "swimming against the stream," I start to flow like a river.

QUESTION: LOOK AT YOUR OWN FACE IN THE MIRROR FOR A MINUTE. DESCRIBE THE KIND(S) OF FACE YOU SEE.

Too much of a good thing (food) always leaves one (me) looking round (like a ball). :shock:

Seriously, though, looking very carefully I can see very clearly the effect that everything I have ever come into contact with has had; happy and sad times, too much sun and too much food, all recorded and visible in every movement.

Metta and Gassho,

Saijun