WHAT IS ZEN? - Chap 4 - Awakening

[Troy]

WHAT IS ZEN? - Chap 4 - Awakening

Amazing talk by Jill. Made me tear up a little. Thanks for sharing Jundo


Sat2day

[Meitou]

Oh my goodness, Jill's talk and the reported dialogue are amazing and really shed light on some 'moments' I've experienced. I also had an incident with my brain eight years ago caused by the onset of high BP which at one point affected my ability to write - I had to sign something, but when I put pen to paper, what I wrote was the equivalent of Jill's labrador noises. It passed within hours but strangely the experience was the catalyst for starting out on this path. I wonder now if somehow in that brief period of excruciating pain and my fear of it, something else was accessed and glimpsed which opened me to the possibility of a more spiritual life. Fascinating, thank you for posting this Jundo.
Gassho
Meitou
Satwithyoualltoday

[Seishin]

There has been interesting feedback on this chapter and to be honest I was put off by the opening paragraph a little

Everyone has a breakthrough of some kind, probably more than one. People don’t continue to practice unless the practice has moved them in some important way. Otherwise they would drift away, as some do. So you can assume that anyone who continues to practice Zen has been profoundly affected by the practice and has had important experiences that have altered the course of their lives.

Fischer, Norman. What Is Zen?: Plain Talk for a Beginner's Mind (p. 39). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

Can't say I've had a breakthrough yet, so Norman's assumption made me sit up and think "so why am I still sitting every day ?" and it kicked me back into the circle of am I doing something wrong, with my not right not wrong zazen ?
I've been sitting daily for 725 days since joining Treeleaf (actually missed one day early on, but not long in the general scheme of things) and am yet to have any kind of experience, while sitting. Normally there is just a kind of neutrality, as the thoughts ebb and flow. I had one session when I felt profoundly calm, so maybe that was it. But I still sit in the belief one day some thing may happen and that while I am there dropping judgement, anger etc etc my practice will slowly influence my time off the zafu.

I've not listened to Jill's talk yet but the description of what's happening in both sides of the brain was fascinating and gives me encouragement that one day the right side of my brain will break free from the shackles of what I now see as the dominant left side and allow me to peer into emptiness.

Taylor: Yea, I think that it’s very important that we recognize that both hemispheres are always functioning and I kind of, I don’t know who it was someone famous said that the blue sky is always there, and to me the blue sky is the consciousness of the right hemisphere. And then the clouds come in which is the consciousness of the left hemisphere and the verbiage and it blocks our ability to see the blue sky but the blue sky is still always there. So I encourage people to pay attention to the two very distinctively different characters inside of your body. You always have the option, moment-by-moment, of saying in this moment I'm going sit back, I’m going to look at the world around me, I’m going to escape all the things that I’m thinking about and I’m just going to pay attention to how the air feels, the temperature of the air, my breath, pay attention to feeling it come in and go out, look at the colors in the field around me stop thinking and analyzing everything that’s going on inside of your left hemisphere, all the jargon. Then you can consciously choose to have that experience at any moment.

This section particularly resonated with me, as I often just stop when out walking the dog, and drink in the surrounding countryside and sounds trying not to label anything, just being conscious of my breathing and feeling alive. Think I'll try and do this more often.

Thanks for listening, while I ramble.

[Jundo]

Hi Seishin,

It is not always about a "breakthrough" or an "experience." A subtle softening of the hard borders and friction between the self and this life and world is fine. It is more than just a passing calm, and you will know for the at homeness in life ... even when life is far from calm.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jishin]

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Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

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Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Wonderful.

Jishin, as far as you know in your work, is Jill's talk on the left/right brain division correct or rather oversimplified (as I suspect, but not sure).

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Shinshou]

These days, I generally see "enlightenment" as an obstacle. A very introspective Christian once said to me, "lusting after heaven is still lust." I can see this same application to enlightenment, especially in a zen context.
Just my view from where I am.

Shinshou (Dan)
Sat Today

[Jishin]

Wonderful.

Jishin, as far as you know in your work, is Jill's talk on the left/right brain division correct or rather oversimplified (as I suspect, but not sure).

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

She is extraordinary. Thank you for pointing out her work. I am not an academic but what she says is true to the best of my understanding.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jakuden]

Wonderful.

Jishin, as far as you know in your work, is Jill's talk on the left/right brain division correct or rather oversimplified (as I suspect, but not sure).

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

I am also curious about whether there is additional information to be gained from people who have had certain types of brain surgery. Didn’t people sometimes used to have the corpus callosum transected to prevent seizures from spreading to the other half of the brain? Does that have an effect on their ability to go from one side to the other?
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday LAH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kotei]

Didn’t people sometimes used to have the corpus callosum transected to prevent seizures from spreading to the other half of the brain? Does that have an effect on their ability to go from one side to the other?

Isn't that what Lobotomy is about? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy
A 'Treatment' for mental disorder? There are disturbing videos on youtube from Mr. Freeman himself, performing such operations. "This operation can be performed by the psychiatrist himself".
(edit: Quite some ugly history in treating criminals, too).

Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

[Eishuu]

I am also curious about whether there is additional information to be gained from people who have had certain types of brain surgery. Didn’t people sometimes used to have the corpus callosum transected to prevent seizures from spreading to the other half of the brain? Does that have an effect on their ability to go from one side to the other?
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday LAH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the studies that Richard Wright was drawing from to argue that the 'ego' is located in only one hemisphere of the brain involved people who had 'split brains' (for whatever reason I can't remember).

Gassho
Eishuu
ST/LAH

[Eishuu]

Meitou, yes it was from Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism! Thank you - I couldn't remember which book it was. :-)

Brilliant cartoon Jishin: that was exactly what I was trying to say. Sometimes hamsters say it better!

Gassho
Eishuu
ST/LAH

[Kotei]

Hello,

I tend to oversimplify these things, but I can only think of enlightenment as doing things and thinking thoughts, that shed light on certain aspects, that are otherwise put aside by my conscious, reacting self.
Studying Buddhism sheds light ('enlightens', 'awakens me to') on certain aspects, as does sitting and interacting with the Sangha.
When sitting, the brain might switch into a different, 'open' mode, that show prior unseen aspects and perspectives.
This happens slow and step by step, or maybe while sitting and having the brain in 'open mode' with a sudden, larger step, when new aspects help to sort the others in place.

Possibly, but I've not experienced such, there is a moment, when enough of the little enlightened thoughts/realisations come together and they suddenly form a new self. The enlightened being.
But maybe, that still depends on the mind, being in it's 'open mode', while sitting.
So it's gone in it's totality, but still radiates into the deluded self, when raising from the cushion.


-

I enjoyed watching two ted talks about our brains, that I find interesting in combination with Jills talk, that I enjoyed very much.
One is from a biologist, who does research on the microbiome in our guts and shows, how the microbes (many more than our own cells) interact with the brain. I liked that lesson on interconnectedness from food/microbes/brain.

The other one about our own neurons in the guts, that are working as an independent brain with bidirectional communication with that other brains in the head, connected to the limbic (emotional) system. That independent brain has about the size of that of a cat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awtmTJW9ic8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkeBjP_9ZR4&t=23s

Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

[Jakuden]

Isn't that what Lobotomy is about? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy
A 'Treatment' for mental disorder? There are disturbing videos on youtube from Mr. Freeman himself, performing such operations. "This operation can be performed by the psychiatrist himself".
(edit: Quite some ugly history in treating criminals, too).

Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

Lobotomy was severing the connections with the prefrontal cortex, or the "higher function" areas that involve personality, planning, and other complex cognition, which is different than severing the connection between the left and right hemispheres. It was a crude and poor solution to mental illness.

Nowadays in the case of epilepsy I think they are able to selectively ablate the areas of the brain where the seizures begin in some cases, instead of such drastic procedures as transecting the corpus callosum, but I just wondered if anyone who had the procedure had described the experience, a la Oliver Sacks style

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Kotei]

Lobotomy was severing the connections with the prefrontal cortex, or the "higher function" areas that involve personality, planning, and other complex cognition, which is different than severing the connection between the left and right hemispheres. It was a crude and poor solution to mental illness.

Nowadays in the case of epilepsy I think they are able to selectively ablate the areas of the brain where the seizures begin in some cases, instead of such drastic procedures as transecting the corpus callosum, but I just wondered if anyone who had the procedure had described the experience, a la Oliver Sacks style

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

Thank you

You made me read about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_callosotomy

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain

Seems, that it is common having language issues after the procedure...


Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.