9/24 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: to Kapimala

[Jundo]

Re: 9/24 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: to Kapimala

Forgive me if this has been raised already, but to what extent do buddhists of various types take these stories literally? My initial impression is that these are legends and are not to be taken literally, but much of our culture will undoubtedly seem a bit odd thousands of years from now.

Gassho,
Dosho

Well, to ancient minds, myths and legends were taken by most, I suppose, as literally "real" or nearly so. The same sense of "historical fact" (still an ambiguous concept, in the eye of the historian quite often) did not exist as it does today. Now, we may be tempted to take these legends and accounts as just fictional or highly fantastic and exaggerated stories.

However, the perspectives and timeless experiences that they are pointing us toward are as real as real can be!

Gassho, Jundo

[Jundo]

Re: 9/24 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: to Kapimala

Forgive me if this has been raised already, but to what extent do buddhists of various types take these stories literally? My initial impression is that these are legends and are not to be taken literally, but much of our culture will undoubtedly seem a bit odd thousands of years from now.

Gassho,
Dosho

Well, to ancient minds, myths and legends were taken by most, I suppose, as literally "real" or nearly so. The same sense of "historical fact" (still an ambiguous concept, in the eye of the historian quite often) did not exist as it does today. Now, we may be tempted to take these legends and accounts as just fictional or highly fantastic and exaggerated stories.

However, the perspectives and timeless experiences that they are pointing us toward are as real as real can be!

So, could someone in the past literally "transform the ocean" or "turn into a dragon" as described in the text? No, or I strongly doubt it. However, can each one of us literally "transform the ocean" and "turn into a dragon" through these practices? YES FOR SURE!


Gassho, Jundo

[Seishin the Elder]

Re: 9/24 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: to Kapimala

Having waded through "The Lives of the Saints" of both the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox churches I can tell you that Buddhist stories do not have a corner on hyperbole in their hagiography. Now I don't recall any of the Western Saints turning themselves "into" dragons, but there were a couple who slew dragons!!! :roll: They also gave lengthy sermons after their heads were chopped off, shattered poisoned wine goblets with a prayer, flew through the air with the greatest of ease, etc., etc. All showing, as Kapimala did, a mastery over the natural world. As marvelous as such things may be they are really only playing as is pointed out in the commentary pointing to Chinese Master Hsueh-feng.

I was taken with that particular commentary as shown in Nixon's book, especially the part about using the mirror and becoming fully awake as the mirror-like Ocean of Reality. It spoke to me deeply about the Ocean of Reality being "recognized as the conscious heart of the human being" with its "waves of wisdom and compassion - guiding, protecting, and maturing precious human persons by means of all sacred traditions...". There is that place, that state, that understand that moves beyond the forms we all may jealously and zealously guard and promote and from where we will be able to openly and compassionately live even still using those very same forms. No need to discard the forms, just know what is truly behind them and how to express them truly.

Gassho,

Seishin Kyrill

[Hogo]

Re: 9/24 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: to Kapimala

Now you see it! **Poof** Now you don't!
:shock:

[AlanLa]

Re: 9/24 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: to Kapimala

Well, the intermission really threw me off my weekly reading schedule here, so now I have some catching up to do.

Kapimala may have been able to transform the ocean, but Ashvoghosa helped him learn how to surf the ocean waves.

It's not about going beyond or doing tricks, it's about creatively dealing with what is here in reality. Life is filled with big and small waves, and since I can't transform them, or the ocean, all I am trying to do is learn how to surf them. And my understanding of surfing is getting into the wave (reality of life), as the picture shows, not just gliding over the surface.

[Fuken]

Re: 9/24 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: to Kapimala

A demon~saint. My kind of hero.